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Author Topic: Gen III: Access Pokémon beyond the sixth slot sub-glitches.  (Read 111440 times)

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Princess Torchic ❤

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Re: Gen III: Access Pokémon beyond the sixth slot sub-glitches.
« Reply #180 on: May 11, 2014, 04:41:03 pm »
It depends on the move. "| {ÀÀ Ñ ÀV []" (hex:0040) will cause corruption just by opening the menu with the move in it, but "=Ñ ;Ç  Ç Á" (hex: 01CE) requires you to use the move to cause corruption. Mind you, 01CE was found from Pawny's Generation III super glitch video, a possible better answer for moves you have to use is this move seen in werster's video.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 04:44:28 pm by Torchickens »
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Give love, receive love, repeat. But in order to love others you must first love yourself unconditionally, even if it means abandoning pressure from projects or taking time off work and empathise with the self as you are your own best friend. The key often is simply to follow your heart, your urges and have faith they are valid; use them to do what you want to do as long as it doesn't harm anyone, and/or sympathise and respect it as we all have bad days (even the prettiest rose has thorns but is still beautiful).

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Re: Gen III: Access Pokémon beyond the sixth slot sub-glitches.
« Reply #181 on: May 11, 2014, 05:23:11 pm »
Mind you, 01CE was found from Pawny's Generation III super glitch video, a possible better answer for moves you have to use is this move seen in werster's video.

Actually it was found by HPokeNgMp4, I just made the video. Not that it really matters. :P
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werster

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Re: Gen III: Access Pokémon beyond the sixth slot sub-glitches.
« Reply #182 on: May 11, 2014, 05:36:35 pm »
Magikarp giving Mewtwo set off alarm bells, because I remember from gen 2 that Splash is the same index number as Mewtwo. And so yeah, that's exactly how this works as well.

Just forced a Level 5 Lugia out by using Makuhita with Rock Smash as its first move (both are 249), so you can make just about any Pokemon out of this.

However, the moves only go up to 354 in Gen 3, which equates to Minun, making pokemon past that harder to get. Perhaps if you breed on a glitch move and then use that, you can get Pokemon past it? Not sure about that, just got my Lugia

Also apparently only Pokemon with certain Data substructures can turn into Eggs and Alter the Pokemon, idk haven't read up on exactly what was going on but Sanquii was talking in my chat posting a bunch of stuff that basically just meant Poochenya wouldn't work and was holding a Pink Scarf because it had 1 Speed EV and 0 Defense, but Makuhita will work. And it did.

I'm just happy this is getting more and more controllable

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Re: Gen III: Access Pokémon beyond the sixth slot sub-glitches.
« Reply #183 on: May 11, 2014, 06:17:32 pm »
Here's a little more explanation.
In gen 3, each Pokémon has a random personality value (PID) which determines stuff like its nature, ability, gender, and form in the case of Pokémon like Unown or Spinda.  The Pokémon structure in gen 3 takes this PID to shuffle the Pokémon data, like species, moves, EVs etc (the pokémon substructures).  You can see those here.  This means every individual Pokémon has these four structures stored in a different order.

Anyway, in the case of this Makuhita, the Growth and Attacks substructures happened to get swapped.  That's why it became Lugia (same ID as Rock Smash) with Block (same ID as Makuhita).
There was also a Poochyena which kept getting a Pink Scarf as its held item - and it had 1 Speed EV and 0 Defense EVs.  Pink Scarf's ID is 0x100 so this means its Growth was getting overwritten by the EVs & Condition substructure.
The reason this works and doesn't produce a Bad Egg is that since you SWAP the two (or more) substructures, no data gets added or removed, thus the checksum stays the same.

Anyway all the save editors I've tried don't work under linux (derp) so I can't actually see which substructure order does this Makuhita have yet.  Stay tuned I guess.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 06:23:50 pm by Sanqui »

Princess Torchic ❤

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Re: Gen III: Access Pokémon beyond the sixth slot sub-glitches.
« Reply #184 on: May 11, 2014, 06:27:20 pm »
Ah, thanks Sanqui, so the effect for werster's Makuhita was that simple? It's kind of ironic that Game Freak's own encryption system worked against them when you change the boxed Pokémon's substructure order and make legendary Pokémon possible.
Hi! I identify as female.  She/her pronouns, please.

Online I most often use the username Torchickens or Chickasaurus.

Ah.. koucha ga oishii ♪





Thank you Aeriixion for the cute sprite above! :) Roelof also made different variations of the sprite (which I animated).

Contact:
If you like, please contact me by private message here on the forums as I no longer check other places very often.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/ChickasaurusGL

I like to collect interesting video games. ^_^
https://www.vgcollect.com/Torchickens

Give love, receive love, repeat. But in order to love others you must first love yourself unconditionally, even if it means abandoning pressure from projects or taking time off work and empathise with the self as you are your own best friend. The key often is simply to follow your heart, your urges and have faith they are valid; use them to do what you want to do as long as it doesn't harm anyone, and/or sympathise and respect it as we all have bad days (even the prettiest rose has thorns but is still beautiful).

Sanqui

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Re: Gen III: Access Pokémon beyond the sixth slot sub-glitches.
« Reply #185 on: May 11, 2014, 06:53:01 pm »
I bring news!  It is not the Pokémon's data that changes...  it's the personality value itself!  Which results in the game reading the substructures in a different order.

I ended up quickly modifying my old Ruby save dumper to work with Emerald to dump the Makuhita's data.  Check this link: http://pastie.org/private/w7slper57jcg1rtmpexpg
As you can see, Makuhita's original PID was 3588162123 ( % 24 = 3) [0xd5df024b]
And it got changed to 2514420299 ( % 24 = 11) [0x95df024b]
Where did the new PID come from?  As you can see, only one bit changed from the original!  That's probably the result of the corruption.

Anyway the Makuhita's substructures were originlly Growth Effort Misc Moves.  That got changed to Moves Misc Effort Growth.
Because the most significant byte of the PID was modified, this also means that (besides the substructure shuffling) every fourth byte of each substructure will be XORed with the new byte (95), and thus effectively arbitrary.  That explains why Makuhita's second move was a glitch move, even though it should've been Pound (since it had no held item).

What amazes me is that the checksum actually matched.  It's no surprise this takes so many tries - I bet that most of the time, the substructure takes a hit (which is an instant bad egg), or the PID does and the checksum doesn't match.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 06:59:55 am by Sanqui »

pigdevil2010

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Re: Gen III: Access Pokémon beyond the sixth slot sub-glitches.
« Reply #186 on: May 12, 2014, 10:11:47 am »
This is how I love Gen III substructure encryption system. Changing the PV (I called Personality Value PV) or trainer ID simply changed the whole unencrypted substructure. Like Sanqui said that just one bit changed and it will change the order and the unencrypted data. However, when I was coding my Pokémon data decoder. I had to do a reflection to make it decode the substructure data in the right order :-\

Anyways, what I discovered from performing this glitch is:
  • The addresses that stores the data of Pokémon in a box is dynamic, it can be offsetted for up to 10 bytes
  • However, the addresses that are corrupted seems to be somewhat in pattern, not randomly and it corrupted the data a little -- about 1 address every 10
  • The data is really fragile, altering PV, trainer ID or any substructure data can make the checksum mismatch and caused the bad eggs. But by a sheer luck (1 in 256 chance) that the checksum is still match.

Pawny

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Re: Gen III: Access Pokémon beyond the sixth slot sub-glitches.
« Reply #187 on: May 12, 2014, 10:29:30 am »
But by a sheer luck (1 in 256 chance) that the checksum is still match.

So that means we can luck-manipulate to get a valid Pokémon with a glitch move? That would overcome the Tate&Liza/Steven double-battle problem in a "glitched" TAS. Though we'd still need to manipulate it further to make it speedrunning-viable. But it's awesome how manipulable this is getting, Glad to see my favorite gen getting glitched like this. :)
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VaeporSage

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Re: Gen III: Access Pokémon beyond the sixth slot sub-glitches.
« Reply #188 on: May 12, 2014, 12:03:34 pm »
This was once one of the most harmless glitches in the Pokémon series... :P

I trained a wild Grimer to Lv34 to learn Acid Armor (index 151), cloned it a few times after deleting all its other moves, and threw it in Box 1. Unfortunately, the one real Egg I did get was just a Lv100 Grimer that wouldn't hatch, and it certainly didn't contain a Mew. But I'll try to fill the box with it this time and see how it goes.

I'm amazed this has gotten this far.  O_o

camper

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Re: Gen III: Access Pokémon beyond the sixth slot sub-glitches.
« Reply #189 on: May 12, 2014, 12:39:36 pm »
Coin Case and 8F were also thought to be harmless. They just crash/reset the game and do nothing else without the correct settings.

Does this work in FR/LG or Ruby/Sapphire?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 12:42:03 pm by camper »
Youtube
 

Guess where this is?

voltage

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Re: Gen III: Access Pokémon beyond the sixth slot sub-glitches.
« Reply #190 on: May 12, 2014, 12:45:55 pm »
When my Mewtwo egg hatched, I'm pretty sure the game said it was going to hatch pretty soon so I didn't have to wait that long.

I also plan to do this with Fury Swipes (Index 254) with multiple Teddiursa and the glitch move my Mewtwo knows twice. I plan on getting the glitch move via Smeargle instead of using Mewtwo directly. The glitch move is the same as the one werster's Lugia has, which I doubt is a coincidence considering they were obtained the same way.

This was once one of the most harmless glitches in the Pokémon series... :P

On a tangent, but can I quote this as my signature?

Does this work in FR/LG or Ruby/Sapphire?

Even though I haven't done this in FRLG or RS directly, to the best of my knowledge, it could work in FRLG but not RS because the half-lit cancel effect appears and the harder cloning method works in the former but not the latter.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 12:50:24 pm by voltage »
This was once one of the most harmless glitches in the Pokémon series... :P

Princess Torchic ❤

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Re: Gen III: Access Pokémon beyond the sixth slot sub-glitches.
« Reply #191 on: May 12, 2014, 01:01:29 pm »
The Pomeg Berry only reduces HP EVs in Emerald, so without trading (the trade center won't restore your Pokémon's health, letting you keep glitched HP) you can't have 'negative HP' Pokémon in Ruby or FireRed/LeafGreen.

In Ruby, using a healing item with 'negative HP' fully restores that Pokémon's health instead of fainting it, so this means you can't set up the access Pokémon beyond the sixth slot glitch.

In FireRed/LeafGreen, the access Pokémon beyond the sixth slot glitch indeed works, using a healing item acts like it does in Emerald, and you can corrupt box Pokémon in the first three boxes with it, but it's kind of 'nerfed'. When you white out your Pokémon get healed for real, so I don't think you can use a Bad EGG you put into your party without further trading, but then that's all theory, I haven't tested it.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 01:07:41 pm by Torchickens »
Hi! I identify as female.  She/her pronouns, please.

Online I most often use the username Torchickens or Chickasaurus.

Ah.. koucha ga oishii ♪





Thank you Aeriixion for the cute sprite above! :) Roelof also made different variations of the sprite (which I animated).

Contact:
If you like, please contact me by private message here on the forums as I no longer check other places very often.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/ChickasaurusGL

I like to collect interesting video games. ^_^
https://www.vgcollect.com/Torchickens

Give love, receive love, repeat. But in order to love others you must first love yourself unconditionally, even if it means abandoning pressure from projects or taking time off work and empathise with the self as you are your own best friend. The key often is simply to follow your heart, your urges and have faith they are valid; use them to do what you want to do as long as it doesn't harm anyone, and/or sympathise and respect it as we all have bad days (even the prettiest rose has thorns but is still beautiful).

VaeporSage

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Re: Gen III: Access Pokémon beyond the sixth slot sub-glitches.
« Reply #192 on: May 12, 2014, 01:38:01 pm »
This was once one of the most harmless glitches in the Pokémon series... :P

On a tangent, but can I quote this as my signature?

Quote away!  ;)

In Ruby, using a healing item with 'negative HP' fully restores that Pokémon's health instead of fainting it, so this means you can't set up the access Pokémon beyond the sixth slot glitch.

Healing in R/S does have this effect, but there are workarounds in the form of planned Rare Candy and evolution stone use. The Decamarks glitch can be set up in R/S like so: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9v-YOv660w

However, the problem, as voltage also mentioned, is that viewing summary screens does not allow scrolling past the 6th Pokémon at all.

In FireRed/LeafGreen, the access Pokémon beyond the sixth slot glitch indeed works, using a healing item acts like it does in Emerald, and you can corrupt box Pokémon in the first three boxes with it, but it's kind of 'nerfed'.

It works on Boxes 1-3? This is different to its effects in Emerald (Boxes 1-2), is it not? Or is this a typo?  :o

When you white out your Pokémon get healed for real, so I don't think you can use a Bad EGG you put into your party without further trading, but then that's all theory, I haven't tested it.

Similar to the use of the Fluffy Tail in Emerald, the Poké Doll can be used to avoid the white-out.

voltage

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Re: Gen III: Access Pokémon beyond the sixth slot sub-glitches.
« Reply #193 on: May 12, 2014, 01:51:31 pm »
I should also mention that my Mewtwo had Helping Hand as its third move when it hatched for whatever reason.
This was once one of the most harmless glitches in the Pokémon series... :P

Princess Torchic ❤

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Re: Gen III: Access Pokémon beyond the sixth slot sub-glitches.
« Reply #194 on: May 12, 2014, 02:20:32 pm »
Healing in R/S does have this effect, but there are workarounds in the form of planned Rare Candy and evolution stone use. The Decamarks glitch can be set up in R/S like so: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9v-YOv660w

However, the problem, as voltage also mentioned, is that viewing summary screens does not allow scrolling past the 6th Pokémon at all.

Ah, that Rare Candy/evolution thing sounds familiar actually, but I didn't properly remember it. Thanks.

I see. With any number of Pokémon you can select the Decamark you send out (and cause weird effects when you view the description of its glitch move) and all your fainted Pokémon, except for your last (even though you can see it) and you can't get to position FF through either scrolling down first or scrolling up.

It works on Boxes 1-3? This is different to its effects in Emerald (Boxes 1-2), is it not? Or is this a typo?  :o

Yes, it corrupts box 1-3 unlike Emerald, where the corruption (working in a backwards order) begins in the middle of box 2, but I should have been more clear, the only Pokémon I was able to corrupt in box 3 was the first.

Similar to the use of the Fluffy Tail in Emerald, the Poké Doll can be used to avoid the white-out.

Ah, thanks.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 02:32:00 pm by Torchickens »
Hi! I identify as female.  She/her pronouns, please.

Online I most often use the username Torchickens or Chickasaurus.

Ah.. koucha ga oishii ♪





Thank you Aeriixion for the cute sprite above! :) Roelof also made different variations of the sprite (which I animated).

Contact:
If you like, please contact me by private message here on the forums as I no longer check other places very often.

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/ChickasaurusGL

I like to collect interesting video games. ^_^
https://www.vgcollect.com/Torchickens

Give love, receive love, repeat. But in order to love others you must first love yourself unconditionally, even if it means abandoning pressure from projects or taking time off work and empathise with the self as you are your own best friend. The key often is simply to follow your heart, your urges and have faith they are valid; use them to do what you want to do as long as it doesn't harm anyone, and/or sympathise and respect it as we all have bad days (even the prettiest rose has thorns but is still beautiful).