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Author Topic: Pokémon Colosseum and XD research  (Read 1091 times)

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Wack0

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Pokémon Colosseum and XD research
« on: April 22, 2014, 05:53:20 am »
so I just found this and decided to reverse it. (Because I'm thinking about starting to play around with Colosseum and XD, the black sheep of Gen 3 which not much is known about)

And I was in for a shock. Pokémon index numbers go from 1 to... 410.

And they seem rather erratic. Example: Spheal has index number 347. (it's National Dex #363)

TODO: make a list of Pokémon in Colosseum by index number.

Well, that's done. There's a gap between Celebi and Treecko. Just like in R/S/E/FR/LG, where these spaces are used to represent ? (or ??, depending if you go by the name or the sprite). So, does this mean this Pokémon exists in Colosseum too? More research required.

Another odd thing is that Chimecho is after Deoxys, however that may be the case in the GBA games too; I can't remember.

For future reference, here's the list:

Code: [Select]
1 - BULBASAUR
2 - IVYSAUR
3 - VENUSAUR
4 - CHARMANDER
5 - CHARMELEON
6 - CHARIZARD
7 - SQUIRTLE
8 - WARTORTLE
9 - BLASTOISE
10 - CATERPIE
11 - METAPOD
12 - BUTTERFREE
13 - WEEDLE
14 - KAKUNA
15 - BEEDRILL
16 - PIDGEY
17 - PIDGEOTTO
18 - PIDGEOT
19 - RATTATA
20 - RATICATE
21 - SPEAROW
22 - FEAROW
23 - EKANS
24 - ARBOK
25 - PIKACHU
26 - RAICHU
27 - SANDSHREW
28 - SANDSLASH
29 - NIDORAN♀
30 - NIDORINA
31 - NIDOQUEEN
32 - NIDORAN♂
33 - NIDORINO
34 - NIDOKING
35 - CLEFAIRY
36 - CLEFABLE
37 - VULPIX
38 - NINETALES
39 - JIGGLYPUFF
40 - WIGGLYTUFF
41 - ZUBAT
42 - GOLBAT
43 - ODDISH
44 - GLOOM
45 - VILEPLUME
46 - PARAS
47 - PARASECT
48 - VENONAT
49 - VENOMOTH
50 - DIGLETT
51 - DUGTRIO
52 - MEOWTH
53 - PERSIAN
54 - PSYDUCK
55 - GOLDUCK
56 - MANKEY
57 - PRIMEAPE
58 - GROWLITHE
59 - ARCANINE
60 - POLIWAG
61 - POLIWHIRL
62 - POLIWRATH
63 - ABRA
64 - KADABRA
65 - ALAKAZAM
66 - MACHOP
67 - MACHOKE
68 - MACHAMP
69 - BELLSPROUT
70 - WEEPINBELL
71 - VICTREEBEL
72 - TENTACOOL
73 - TENTACRUEL
74 - GEODUDE
75 - GRAVELER
76 - GOLEM
77 - PONYTA
78 - RAPIDASH
79 - SLOWPOKE
80 - SLOWBRO
81 - MAGNEMITE
82 - MAGNETON
83 - FARFETCH’D
84 - DODUO
85 - DODRIO
86 - SEEL
87 - DEWGONG
88 - GRIMER
89 - MUK
90 - SHELLDER
91 - CLOYSTER
92 - GASTLY
93 - HAUNTER
94 - GENGAR
95 - ONIX
96 - DROWZEE
97 - HYPNO
98 - KRABBY
99 - KINGLER
100 - VOLTORB
101 - ELECTRODE
102 - EXEGGCUTE
103 - EXEGGUTOR
104 - CUBONE
105 - MAROWAK
106 - HITMONLEE
107 - HITMONCHAN
108 - LICKITUNG
109 - KOFFING
110 - WEEZING
111 - RHYHORN
112 - RHYDON
113 - CHANSEY
114 - TANGELA
115 - KANGASKHAN
116 - HORSEA
117 - SEADRA
118 - GOLDEEN
119 - SEAKING
120 - STARYU
121 - STARMIE
122 - MR. MIME
123 - SCYTHER
124 - JYNX
125 - ELECTABUZZ
126 - MAGMAR
127 - PINSIR
128 - TAUROS
129 - MAGIKARP
130 - GYARADOS
131 - LAPRAS
132 - DITTO
133 - EEVEE
134 - VAPOREON
135 - JOLTEON
136 - FLAREON
137 - PORYGON
138 - OMANYTE
139 - OMASTAR
140 - KABUTO
141 - KABUTOPS
142 - AERODACTYL
143 - SNORLAX
144 - ARTICUNO
145 - ZAPDOS
146 - MOLTRES
147 - DRATINI
148 - DRAGONAIR
149 - DRAGONITE
150 - MEWTWO
151 - MEW
152 - CHIKORITA
153 - BAYLEEF
154 - MEGANIUM
155 - CYNDAQUIL
156 - QUILAVA
157 - TYPHLOSION
158 - TOTODILE
159 - CROCONAW
160 - FERALIGATR
161 - SENTRET
162 - FURRET
163 - HOOTHOOT
164 - NOCTOWL
165 - LEDYBA
166 - LEDIAN
167 - SPINARAK
168 - ARIADOS
169 - CROBAT
170 - CHINCHOU
171 - LANTURN
172 - PICHU
173 - CLEFFA
174 - IGGLYBUFF
175 - TOGEPI
176 - TOGETIC
177 - NATU
178 - XATU
179 - MAREEP
180 - FLAAFFY
181 - AMPHAROS
182 - BELLOSSOM
183 - MARILL
184 - AZUMARILL
185 - SUDOWOODO
186 - POLITOED
187 - HOPPIP
188 - SKIPLOOM
189 - JUMPLUFF
190 - AIPOM
191 - SUNKERN
192 - SUNFLORA
193 - YANMA
194 - WOOPER
195 - QUAGSIRE
196 - ESPEON
197 - UMBREON
198 - MURKROW
199 - SLOWKING
200 - MISDREAVUS
201 - UNOWN
202 - WOBBUFFET
203 - GIRAFARIG
204 - PINECO
205 - FORRETRESS
206 - DUNSPARCE
207 - GLIGAR
208 - STEELIX
209 - SNUBBULL
210 - GRANBULL
211 - QWILFISH
212 - SCIZOR
213 - SHUCKLE
214 - HERACROSS
215 - SNEASEL
216 - TEDDIURSA
217 - URSARING
218 - SLUGMA
219 - MAGCARGO
220 - SWINUB
221 - PILOSWINE
222 - CORSOLA
223 - REMORAID
224 - OCTILLERY
225 - DELIBIRD
226 - MANTINE
227 - SKARMORY
228 - HOUNDOUR
229 - HOUNDOOM
230 - KINGDRA
231 - PHANPY
232 - DONPHAN
233 - PORYGON2
234 - STANTLER
235 - SMEARGLE
236 - TYROGUE
237 - HITMONTOP
238 - SMOOCHUM
239 - ELEKID
240 - MAGBY
241 - MILTANK
242 - BLISSEY
243 - RAIKOU
244 - ENTEI
245 - SUICUNE
246 - LARVITAR
247 - PUPITAR
248 - TYRANITAR
249 - LUGIA
250 - HO-OH
251 - CELEBI
277 - TREECKO
278 - GROVYLE
279 - SCEPTILE
280 - TORCHIC
281 - COMBUSKEN
282 - BLAZIKEN
283 - MUDKIP
284 - MARSHTOMP
285 - SWAMPERT
286 - POOCHYENA
287 - MIGHTYENA
288 - ZIGZAGOON
289 - LINOONE
290 - WURMPLE
291 - SILCOON
292 - BEAUTIFLY
293 - CASCOON
294 - DUSTOX
295 - LOTAD
296 - LOMBRE
297 - LUDICOLO
298 - SEEDOT
299 - NUZLEAF
300 - SHIFTRY
301 - NINCADA
302 - NINJASK
303 - SHEDINJA
304 - TAILLOW
305 - SWELLOW
306 - SHROOMISH
307 - BRELOOM
308 - SPINDA
309 - WINGULL
310 - PELIPPER
311 - SURSKIT
312 - MASQUERAIN
313 - WAILMER
314 - WAILORD
315 - SKITTY
316 - DELCATTY
317 - KECLEON
318 - BALTOY
319 - CLAYDOL
320 - NOSEPASS
321 - TORKOAL
322 - SABLEYE
323 - BARBOACH
324 - WHISCASH
325 - LUVDISC
326 - CORPHISH
327 - CRAWDAUNT
328 - FEEBAS
329 - MILOTIC
330 - CARVANHA
331 - SHARPEDO
332 - TRAPINCH
333 - VIBRAVA
334 - FLYGON
335 - MAKUHITA
336 - HARIYAMA
337 - ELECTRIKE
338 - MANECTRIC
339 - NUMEL
340 - CAMERUPT
341 - SPHEAL
342 - SEALEO
343 - WALREIN
344 - CACNEA
345 - CACTURNE
346 - SNORUNT
347 - GLALIE
348 - LUNATONE
349 - SOLROCK
350 - AZURILL
351 - SPOINK
352 - GRUMPIG
353 - PLUSLE
354 - MINUN
355 - MAWILE
356 - MEDITITE
357 - MEDICHAM
358 - SWABLU
359 - ALTARIA
360 - WYNAUT
361 - DUSKULL
362 - DUSCLOPS
363 - ROSELIA
364 - SLAKOTH
365 - VIGOROTH
366 - SLAKING
367 - GULPIN
368 - SWALOT
369 - TROPIUS
370 - WHISMUR
371 - LOUDRED
372 - EXPLOUD
373 - CLAMPERL
374 - HUNTAIL
375 - GOREBYSS
376 - ABSOL
377 - SHUPPET
378 - BANETTE
379 - SEVIPER
380 - ZANGOOSE
381 - RELICANTH
382 - ARON
383 - LAIRON
384 - AGGRON
385 - CASTFORM
386 - VOLBEAT
387 - ILLUMISE
388 - LILEEP
389 - CRADILY
390 - ANORITH
391 - ARMALDO
392 - RALTS
393 - KIRLIA
394 - GARDEVOIR
395 - BAGON
396 - SHELGON
397 - SALAMENCE
398 - BELDUM
399 - METANG
400 - METAGROSS
401 - REGIROCK
402 - REGICE
403 - REGISTEEL
404 - KYOGRE
405 - GROUDON
406 - RAYQUAZA
407 - LATIAS
408 - LATIOS
409 - JIRACHI
410 - DEOXYS
411 - CHIMECHO
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 11:39:41 am by Wack0 »
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Re: Pokémon Colosseum
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2014, 08:12:49 am »
Another odd thing is that Chimecho is after Deoxys, however that may be the case in the GBA games too; I can't remember.
Your memory has served you correctly, as it is indeed the case in the GBA games. Still nobody knows why other than maybe it was put in there late in development (emphasis on maybe). XD doesn't have this because Munchlax is there instead, though I didn't go so far as to check if Chimecho is still after Deoxys.

Anyways, my semi-uneducated guess as to the gap would be that it has something to do with Unown given that the gap is 26 between Celebi and Treecko.

As to whether ? exists or not, the real question would be: Does the game display some sort of 3D rendering of ?/??'s sprites when encountering an invalid index number, some other placeholder entirely, nothing, a glitched mess, or the game just freezes unspectacularly?


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Re: Pokémon Colosseum
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2014, 08:16:13 am »
As to whether ? exists or not, the real question would be: Does the game display some sort of 3D rendering of ?/??'s sprites when encountering an invalid index number, some other placeholder entirely, nothing, a glitched mess, or the game just freezes unspectacularly?

Like I said, further research is required. When I get home I'll prolly dump my Colo/XD discs and then play around with cheats in Dolphin.
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Re: Pokémon Colosseum
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2014, 11:17:16 am »
Well, I just stumbled upon these:

http://www.gc-forever.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2024
http://www.gc-forever.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2023

http://www.gc-forever.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2069
http://www.gc-forever.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2068

Debug modes? Unused Vaporeon and Jolteon as starters in XD? Unused test rooms? Poké Spot species modifier in XD?

Wow. I need to try some of this out.
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Re: Pokémon Colosseum and XD research
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2014, 11:42:38 am »
Just tried the species modifier with some interesting results..

Well, I tried specie $1337.



I got into battle, and then invalid opcodes everywhere. I'll be trying again in debug Dolphin to see where the f**k we jumped to.

edit: Oh wait, the invalid opcodes are in the *gpu*. Which kinda makes sense when you think about it. I wonder what would happen on real hardware. But are we bad enough dudes to do that? :)

edit 2: Just tried to change party position #1 to an invalid species. Anything I try shows up as a blank, shows a weird blank summary screen, and doesn't come out in battle (and in battle reverts to an empty spot).
Time to try invalid moves then...
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 12:15:26 pm by Wack0 »
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Re: Pokémon Colosseum and XD research
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2014, 06:22:03 pm »
edit: Oh wait, the invalid opcodes are in the *gpu*. Which kinda makes sense when you think about it. I wonder what would happen on real hardware. But are we bad enough dudes to do that? :)
As soon as I unpack my stuff: Yes. Very yes. We are definitely the baddest of all bad enough dudes.

Failing that, is it plausible to hax the game into rendering a valid Pokémon model (so the GPU doesn't explode) while still having everything else as 0x1337?
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 06:24:19 pm by Zowayix »


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Re: Pokémon Colosseum and XD research
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2014, 06:45:11 pm »
edit: Oh wait, the invalid opcodes are in the *gpu*. Which kinda makes sense when you think about it. I wonder what would happen on real hardware. But are we bad enough dudes to do that? :)
As soon as I unpack my stuff: Yes. Very yes. We are definitely the baddest of all bad enough dudes.

Failing that, is it plausible to hax the game into rendering a valid Pokémon model (so the GPU doesn't explode) while still having everything else as 0x1337?

Further research shows that an invalid Pokemon is the same as none. In Colosseum, I entered a battle with no Pokémon. The opponent moved first. To switch out. Then I whited out. In XD, I entered a battle with four invalid moves. Pressing A in the fight menu did nothing.

However, using a heal machine with no Pokémon was funny. Six Pokéballs slotted into the machine, followed by attempted writes to seemingly random addresses. Which crashed Dolphin, of course!

And the only thing you can do in a wild battle against an invalid Pokémon in XD is to run using 'Call'. However, the status of a blank first slot in both games is rather weird. I'll post screenshots when I can.
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Re: Pokémon Colosseum and XD research
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2014, 11:00:50 am »
About Colosseum's list of Pokémon by index number: it's the same ordering as Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald's list of Pokémon by index number. Not sure if you were aware.

As you suggest, it is not stored in the final Pokédex order.

Other than the existence of 25 '?' in between Celebi and Treecko's index numbers, there are differences in the ordering of used Pokémon (other than the more known Chimecho being the last Pokémon one), for instance; Ralts, Kirlia and Gardevoir are up there after the fossil Pokémon and before the Bagon family in the internal ordering, unlike how in the Pokédex ordering they are after Wingull and Pelipper.

I do feel that Game Freak had a different Pokédex order planned at one point, and may have had different plans regarding how early on certain Pokémon would be distributed. I made a list of 'earlier' and 'later' Pokémon compared to the Pokédex, but then I got confused somewhere and stopped. I remember that the internal ordering has Torkoal after Nosepass, but in the Pokédex it is after Numel and Camerupt, probably because they are similar Fire type Pokémon.

Wack0, did you try any of the "?" (index numbers between Celebi and Treecko)? Do they result in simply a freeze?
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 11:09:01 am by Torchickens »
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Re: Pokémon Colosseum and XD research
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2014, 12:06:34 pm »
Wack0, did you try any of the "?" (index numbers between Celebi and Treecko)? Do they result in simply a freeze?

Unfortunately, they resulted in the same thing as when I tried 0x1337.

Given what Colosseum and XD interpret invalid Pokémon as, I wonder what happens if you try to bring a Decamark into Colo/XD. (via trading or just in multiplayer battle)
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 12:14:58 pm by Wack0 »
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Re: Pokémon Colosseum and XD research
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2014, 01:06:09 pm »
Wack0, did you try any of the "?" (index numbers between Celebi and Treecko)? Do they result in simply a freeze?

Unfortunately, they resulted in the same thing as when I tried 0x1337.

Given what Colosseum and XD interpret invalid Pokémon as, I wonder what happens if you try to bring a Decamark into Colo/XD. (via trading or just in multiplayer battle)

That's a shame. It would have been cool if there was a 3D render of the two ? marks or ? mark in a circle. though someone probably would have found it by now.

Do they freeze in all circumstances? (Being in the box, being in battle) and in both Colosseum and XD?
Hello. I actually identify as gender questioning, but nowadays feel more firmly that I identify as female. My sex is male but I like to express myself as female.

Thank you TMTRAINER for my avatar and Aeriixion for the cute sprite! :) Roelof also made different variations of the sprite (which I animated).

Contact:

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Bulbapedia Starfy Wiki

Beyond all philosophies are the things that go best for you; what makes you feel content. It's important to always follow your heart, so unless you feel perfectly happy about it don't just follow something because it is popular, fits a style or is conventional. Sometimes you may reach a point you're not sure who you are, but as things settle I'm convinced things do work out in time.

Wack0

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Re: Pokémon Colosseum and XD research
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2014, 02:40:20 pm »
Wack0, did you try any of the "?" (index numbers between Celebi and Treecko)? Do they result in simply a freeze?

Unfortunately, they resulted in the same thing as when I tried 0x1337.

Given what Colosseum and XD interpret invalid Pokémon as, I wonder what happens if you try to bring a Decamark into Colo/XD. (via trading or just in multiplayer battle)

That's a shame. It would have been cool if there was a 3D render of the two ? marks or ? mark in a circle. though someone probably would have found it by now.

Do they freeze in all circumstances? (Being in the box, being in battle) and in both Colosseum and XD?

I haven't checked in battle in Colosseum, but in XD you get invalid GPU opcodes and in between that, nothing (moves or items) will work.

In the party it all shows up as an empty slot.
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Re: Pokémon Colosseum and XD research
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2014, 02:52:08 pm »
Ah, thanks for your reply.
Hello. I actually identify as gender questioning, but nowadays feel more firmly that I identify as female. My sex is male but I like to express myself as female.

Thank you TMTRAINER for my avatar and Aeriixion for the cute sprite! :) Roelof also made different variations of the sprite (which I animated).

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Bulbapedia Starfy Wiki

Beyond all philosophies are the things that go best for you; what makes you feel content. It's important to always follow your heart, so unless you feel perfectly happy about it don't just follow something because it is popular, fits a style or is conventional. Sometimes you may reach a point you're not sure who you are, but as things settle I'm convinced things do work out in time.