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Author Topic: GSC glitch Pokémon "biological research"  (Read 609 times)

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OLDEN

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GSC glitch Pokémon "biological research"
« on: January 27, 2017, 11:41:46 pm »
I've noticed that info on the GSC glitch Pokémon is rather... sparse. Their pages on Glitch City have been empty for generations, and their Bulbapedia pages are rather spotty, to say the least. As a result, I took it upon myself to do some research on them - double-checking their base stats, types, finding their experience at level 100, gender ratios, the differences between the Gold/Silver glitch Pokémon and the Crystal glitch Pokémon, and the works. However, I'm too lazy to do a writeup for everything I've done immediately, so I'm just going to start with the discovery that pushed me to make this thread.

I've been working on trying to find the base stats for the glitch egg in Crystal (C:253). According to the ROM, the base stats for the glitch egg should be HP 145/ATK 140/DEF 96/SPATK 131/SPDEF 132/SPEED 141, so I edited the save file so that I had a level 99 glitch Egg with 1059859 EXP (1 EXP until level 100), and walked around near Violet City. However, the resulting stats upon reaching level 100 were far lower than the stats indicated. Furthermore, I noticed that the stats differed depending on the Pokémon I defeated to reach level 100 - far more than the effect of EVs should be. Mystified, I checked the base stats listed on Bulbapedia and mucked around in the ROM to find if those stats corresponded to anything. They did: the information listed on Bulbapedia matched the base stats of Charmander and Cyndaquil (and they STILL didn't match the stats I got from battle). I set the EVs of the glitch Egg to the maximum of 65535, returned it to level 99, and beat up a Pidgey, then repeated the process with a Caterpie. Again, I got different stats, even with unchanged EVs. I decided to check Pidgey and Caterpie's base stats, used the RBYGSC stat formula, and found that the stats matched.

TL;DR Glitch egg copies stats of opposing Pokémon, same as the special Missingno. from RBY.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 02:06:47 am by OLDEN »

Yeniaul

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Re: GSC glitch Pokémon "biological research"
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2017, 12:01:33 am »
Try fucking about with memory, rule out some other potential variables, just in case.

OLDEN

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Re: GSC glitch Pokémon "biological research"
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2017, 01:31:48 am »
Try fucking about with memory, rule out some other potential variables, just in case.
Duplicated the Crystal ROM and save file to a temporary one, changed all of Pidgey's base stats in the ROM to 0, and beat up a Pidgey, which resulted in a bunch of 98's. With 15 IVs and 65536 EVs in each stat, this should be correct, as

floor[((0+15)+sqrt(65535)/8)*100/50]+5 = floor[(15+255.998/8)*2]+5 = 93+5 = 98.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 02:05:34 am by OLDEN »

Charmy

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Re: GSC glitch Pokémon "biological research"
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2017, 05:05:51 am »
OLDEN, use a Rare Candy.
PS:Goddamn TPP memes.
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OLDEN

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Re: GSC glitch Pokémon "biological research"
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2017, 05:03:32 pm »
OLDEN, use a Rare Candy.
PS:Goddamn TPP memes.
The glitch egg still acts as an egg outside of battle, so it's pretty much impossible to interact with it (as far as I know). Can't use any items on it, can't view its stats.
Hey, at least someone got the reference.



Anyways, as part of the continuing research, I created a spreadsheet of information for the ten GSC glitch Pokémon here using the data from the ROM. It's missing some things, such as the level up moves and evolutions, but more importantly, I'm treating most of these as predictions rather than real data until I can verify otherwise. Among the things I did manage to fill in include the gender ratios.

Gender in GSC is determined in a fairly simple manner. If a Pokémon's attack IV is below a certain threshold, it is female, and otherwise, it is male, so I decided to shift around the attack IVs of my mons until they changed gender.

Results (Crystal and Gold/Silver)
GS:0 is always male.
GS:252 is 1 female to 15 males.
GS:254 is 1 female to 3 males.
GS:255 is 7 females to 9 males. (According to Bulbapedia, this is the actual ratio for species that are said to have 1 female to 1 male.)
C:0 is 1 female to 1 male.
C:252 is 9 females to 7 males.
C:253 is 1 female to 1 male.
C:254 is 1 female to 1 male.
C:255 is 5 females to 11 males.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 05:30:24 pm by OLDEN »

Charmy

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Re: GSC glitch Pokémon "biological research"
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2017, 05:19:34 pm »
Note:My previous post has a sublimal message.

Anyway, locate Pidgey's EV amount giving value. Unless you already done that.
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OLDEN

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Re: GSC glitch Pokémon "biological research"
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2017, 09:31:02 pm »
Note:My previous post has a sublimal message.

Anyway, locate Pidgey's EV amount giving value. Unless you already done that.

Note: So did mine.

EVs work differently in gen I and II than in later gens. Whenever a Pokémon defeats another Pokémon, the victor gains the loser's base stats in EVs (or stat experience as some call it), so zeroing the Pidgey's base stats also negates any EVs it gives. The maximum amount of EVs a Pokémon can have in any stat is 65535, so even if it did give EVs, it shouldn't have any effect on the experiment anyways.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 09:31:32 pm by OLDEN »

Charmy

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Re: GSC glitch Pokémon "biological research"
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2017, 11:02:28 am »
Note:My previous post has a sublimal message.

Anyway, locate Pidgey's EV amount giving value. Unless you already done that.

Note: So did mine.

EVs work differently in gen I and II than in later gens. Whenever a Pokémon defeats another Pokémon, the victor gains the loser's base stats in EVs (or stat experience as some call it), so zeroing the Pidgey's base stats also negates any EVs it gives. The maximum amount of EVs a Pokémon can have in any stat is 65535, so even if it did give EVs, it shouldn't have any effect on the experiment anyways.
Well then, I guess that OLDENEGG's stats are based on RAM...
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Go along then" - Old Man


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Re: GSC glitch Pokémon "biological research"
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2017, 01:35:24 pm »
The base data of Pokemon beyond #251 is read from Pokemon names: https://github.com/pret/pokecrystal/blob/f0209d6ed6a0cd0e759dff49bdfe4d8171229c29/main.asm#L4646-L4649

There are no pointers, since the length is fixed. Considering Pokemon names are uppercase, everything is either going to be 0x80-0x99, or 0x50 (padding byte used for Pokemon names).

However, egg's base data other than the sprite is not loaded at all, just like the fossils/ghost MissingNo in RBY indeed: https://github.com/pret/pokecrystal/blob/700321a7fb2d6c852ffc91cc0b8867526cb76813/home.asm#L1700-L1742

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Re: GSC glitch Pokémon "biological research"
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2017, 06:53:26 pm »
Great research OLDEN! :) Thanks!

I love the research you did on the gender ratios and Egg groups.

TL;DR Glitch egg copies stats of opposing Pokémon, same as the special Missingno. from RBY.

Yeah, I also noticed that about the glitch Egg. I was the user who originally added base stats for glitch Egg on Bulbapedia (taken from memory addresses that store them rather than the ROM though; it seems this got updated with another Pokémon's base stats), but later I realized Egg's base stats and type depend on previous data before, when a user asked me about the glitch Egg on YouTube.

Coincidentally I added some of the data to our wiki articles for http://glitchcity.info/wiki/GlitchDex/GS:000 http://glitchcity.info/wiki/GlitchDex/C:000 http://glitchcity.info/wiki/GlitchDex/C:254 and http://glitchcity.info/wiki/GlitchDex/C:255

(Previously there were articles with the GSC prefix, which needs to be fixed some day because the ????? data between Gold/Silver and Crystal is significantly different)
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Re: GSC glitch Pokémon "biological research"
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2017, 07:33:32 pm »
Hi, Torchickens! I hadn't expected a late reply, so this was a pleasant surprise. I put a good chunk of the data I verified up on Bulbapedia, including base stats, gender ratios, extremely weird experience rates, and the like.

Some notes:
  • Things I haven't verified through gameplay yet include catch rates, EXP yield, and egg cycles. I haven't checked a few of the egg groups as well, but I'm pretty confident in those, especially since I got my C:254 to breed with a Totodile.
  • Encounters with ????? in Gold/Silver always result in a link battle.
  • I haven't found any held items on wild ?????. Maybe it's just probability, but I doubt they have any.
  • Bulbapedia asserted that 'l) m) ZM, one of the types of GS:255, was functionally the same as the Steel-type (on your suggestion, actually), but my GS:255 ?????s don't seem to resist Normal-type moves.
  • Other the evolutions I've verified, I've gotten a few weird evolutions such as GS:000 to Nidoran♂, C:000 to Nidoran♂, and C:252 to Butterfree. Force-feeding them tons of Rare Candies might be the trigger; at the very least, my notes claim that GS:000 evolves into Nidoran when 49 Rare Candies are used on it in a row, no matter the level it starts at.
  • Don't forget to add Crystal move tutor moves.

The last thing I need to do is egg moves, as I have no idea where those are in the ROM.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2017, 07:33:51 pm by OLDEN »