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Author Topic: Scrapped Pokémon from Gold and Silver  (Read 1833 times)

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SatoMew

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Scrapped Pokémon from Gold and Silver
« on: August 27, 2015, 04:13:20 pm »
Apparently there were a few Pokémon that Game Freak showed or otherwise mentioned at Nintendo Space World 1997 but then scrapped. Their names are アクア, アクエリア, アニモン, エレキング, ハネコ, イカリ, ペインター, プクー, サニー, and ヨロイドリ (sources: 1, 2) Some of them are claimed to have appeared in a promotional video for the event. Others seem to be earlier references to Pokémon that eventually shipped.

ホノオグマ and クルス were the Fire-type and Water-type starters, respectively, in the demo, but Cyndaquil and Totodile took their roles by Nintendo Space World 1999. ハッパ instead developed into Chikorita.

I've also found a few other sites talking about early Gold and Silver:

https://web.archive.org/web/19990504203738/http://www.maccentral.or.jp/pokemon/q-zisyu/ninten000.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20040112111018/http://www3.synapse.ne.jp/pacific/users/pokemon/ibutsu/kingin_time_capsule/analysys.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20100522031051/http://www.reocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/5553/prepm2.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20021114111108/http://www.bekkoame.ne.jp/~niki/poke2.html

Does anyone know more about this or is this somewhat obscure?
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 05:52:49 am by SatoMew »

Crystalame

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Re: Scrapped Pokémon from Gold and Silver
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2015, 05:23:07 pm »
I've seen and heard all of the (available) general information about the Space World G/S prototypes and I'm always interested in knowing more. Man, if I could get my hands on a copy of one of those carts somehow...  :P

Unfortunately, I haven't heard any new information on these prototypes in a long time. Bulbapedia's article has some pictures of the scrapped Pokemon (though I see you've done some work on Bulbapedia before so I bet you've already seen this!)... but the most unfortunate thing, to me, is that there are no screenshots (well... photos, to be more accurate) anywhere of the demo, so no sprites of those starters or anything. :( I've also heard some other pretty wacky info about the demo, such as really strange wild Pokemon (I can't remember the exacts, but DEFINITELY not what you'd encounter that early in the game!) and I also heard the starters were a higher level in the demo... I think 9 or 10? I also recall hearing that "Chikorita" had a move named "Serene" or something as well? Wonder what that could have been!

According to that Bulbapedia page, Kurusu's Pokedex number was also 212, which is... bizarre.

Oh, also, I translated those names in your post, and I got (this is all assuming Google Translate isn't failing me here):
アクア = Aqua
アクエリア = Aquaria
アニモン = Animon (what)
エレキング = Eleking (Elekid? Or maybe Electivire was planned for G/S too? :S)
ハネコ = Haneko (no idea--- oh it's hoppip apparently)
イカリ = Ikari
ペインター = Painter (99% sure this would be Smeargle)
プクー = "Puku" this one is perhaps that Qwilfish prototype
サニー = Sonny (... well, apparently Sunflora was "Sunny", so maybe this is just a translate fail)
ヨロイドリ = Yoroidori

Phew! That was a long post with... actually little substance, I'm sorry, haha, you've probably seen/heard about most of what I talked about already. I feel like a lot of things surrounding the G/S development are actually kind of mysterious, which makes me like it even more. :D So, overall, I'd say it's fairly obscure. If you find any more/new info, I'd be really excited to hear about it. Sadly I don't understand any Japanese, so I can't read those pages. :(
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Torchickens

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Re: Scrapped Pokémon from Gold and Silver
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2015, 09:33:00 am »
I've also read about these Pokémon but in 2011. They piqued my interest as well. I think that Ash Pokémaster may have mentioned them on Bulbagarden too (definitely someone did) but I don't who it was for sure and my memory tells me they didn't know anything that wasn't already documented.

There is a Japanese website called Botsu Pokémon (ボツポケモン応援隊), "Discarded Pokémon" (or "The Lost Pokémon")

According to the site, Akua (presumably Aqua) appeared in the Nintendo Space World 1997 trial demo. Aquaria was mentioned in the Pokédex in a promotional video. Animon was mentioned in a video about new features of the Pokédex. Ikari is believed to have been remembered from the word いかり (anger or anchor) (does this imply it may not have been called this?). Eleking is said to have appeared in the trial demo. Bukū is said to have looked like a flying squirrel and appeared at night.

Additionally, this page mentions a Pokémon called "Netamon" that appeared on routes that may be related to Metamon (Ditto).

I think the most interesting thing is if Netamon is a relative of Ditto or that Eleking could have been Electivire but I feel it's more likely that it was just Elekid with a different name and/or design (maybe featuring a crown).

I feel that some of the information could have arisen from false memory like the Netamon thing. Perhaps eventually the 1997 Space World demo will be dumped (and this way maybe even more unused Pokémon names could be retrieved from the ROM), or perhaps more likely a video showing the Pokémon could be retrieved.

Related thread: http://profglitch.proboards.com/thread/431/prototype-capsule-monsters-green-designs

Edit: Gonzou (ゴンゾウ) is said to be another unused Pokémon that became Munchlax in Generation IV(!). I just saw it on Japanese Pokémon Wiki's discarded Pokémon page. I never noticed it there before, so maybe somebody added it later.

Additionally, there is a discussion about Gonzou and other interesting things on this page.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2015, 09:57:26 am by Torchickens »
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Re: Scrapped Pokémon from Gold and Silver
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2017, 03:30:44 pm »
Recently Catstorm26 found an old tweet from 2013 with an alleged image of Honooguma by Katsu Nagao, curiously with what appears to be an orange Metapod; which may be a consequence of the game not being a CGB game, although I don't know for sure if it was.



She asked them whether the picture was real, and Katsu Nagao replied it was from the 7th Next Generation World Hobby Fair event from January 1998. There is also an interesting border in the image, similar to an old Pokémon Red and Green screenshot from New Game Design: TV Game no Idea ga Mietekuru page 153.



There is also a Serebii post about this which can be found here.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 03:58:22 pm by Torchickens »
Hello. I actually identify as gender questioning, but nowadays feel more firmly that I identify as female. My sex is male but I like to express myself as female.  She/her pronouns, please.


Thank you Myri for my avatar! Thank you Aeriixion for the cute sprite above! :) Roelof also made different variations of the sprite (which I animated).

Contact:

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Bulbapedia Starfy Wiki

Beyond all philosophies are the things that go best for you; what makes you feel content. It's important to always follow your heart, so unless you feel perfectly happy about it don't just follow something because it is popular, fits a style or is conventional. Sometimes you may reach a point you're not sure who you are, but as things settle I'm convinced things do work out in time.

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Re: Scrapped Pokémon from Gold and Silver
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2017, 04:28:56 am »
Honoguuma looks cool here, maybe one day Nintendo would release Pokemon Gold and Silver Beta on Virtual Console? For risolve this game mistery.

Charmy

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Re: Scrapped Pokémon from Gold and Silver
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2017, 11:48:37 am »
Honoguuma looks cool here, maybe one day Nintendo would release Pokemon Gold and Silver Beta on Virtual Console? For risolve this game mistery.
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Re: Scrapped Pokémon from Gold and Silver
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2017, 01:44:45 pm »
By far some of the best news I've seen in a while for the old Pokemon games! I thought we'd never see a picture! Well, assuming it's real.

Metapod's shiny is orange so that's kind of funny
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Re: Scrapped Pokémon from Gold and Silver
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2017, 07:07:51 pm »
The HP bars are red-orange as well, so it looks like there may be just one palette applied to the entire screen.

SatoMew

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Re: Scrapped Pokémon from Gold and Silver
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2017, 09:04:03 am »
Recently Catstorm26 found an old tweet from 2013 with an alleged image of Honooguma by Katsu Nagao, curiously with what appears to be an orange Metapod; which may be a consequence of the game not being a CGB game, although I don't know for sure if it was.

The games definitely weren't meant for the GBC at that point in development but here's something interesting: the Japanese Wikipedia article on the Game Boy Color says that Nintendo originally planned to release it on January 21, 1998 but delayed it due to the Pokémon Shock in early December 1997, less than a month after Space World '97. I wonder if this had any impact in Game Freak's decision to postpone their March 1998 release date for Gold and Silver.

As to the orangeish colors across that screen, that does seem an odd choice for a SGB palette.

SatoMew

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Re: Scrapped Pokémon from Gold and Silver
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2017, 04:32:31 pm »
TCRF has an interesting article about the prerelease period of Gold and Silver. For example, the Space World '97 guidebook mentions that the protagonist has a 3-year-older brother (Red?).

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Re: Scrapped Pokémon from Gold and Silver
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2017, 04:31:21 am »
There's something incredibly depressing about this... All these cool Pokemon that were literally removed from existence, and we will probably never meet them...

Aqua and Aquaria could be Marill and Azumarill. (When was that little drawing of purple Marill revealed?)

Būku could have been reworked into Emolga...

Is it possible for somebody to contact Katsu Nagao and ask if they remember any of the other Pokemon?
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Torchickens

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Re: Scrapped Pokémon from Gold and Silver
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2017, 09:14:21 am »
There's something incredibly depressing about this... All these cool Pokemon that were literally removed from existence, and we will probably never meet them...

Aqua and Aquaria could be Marill and Azumarill. (When was that little drawing of purple Marill revealed?)

Būku could have been reworked into Emolga...

Is it possible for somebody to contact Katsu Nagao and ask if they remember any of the other Pokemon?

Yeah, we never know though. Maybe Game Freak will rework these in the future or have already done so for one or more of them. Would love to see Honooguma in a future generation. :)

Not sure when the Marill artwork was created and apparently the artwork is actually fan-made, not official.
Hello. I actually identify as gender questioning, but nowadays feel more firmly that I identify as female. My sex is male but I like to express myself as female.  She/her pronouns, please.


Thank you Myri for my avatar! Thank you Aeriixion for the cute sprite above! :) Roelof also made different variations of the sprite (which I animated).

Contact:

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Skype: Torchickens
Bulbapedia Starfy Wiki

Beyond all philosophies are the things that go best for you; what makes you feel content. It's important to always follow your heart, so unless you feel perfectly happy about it don't just follow something because it is popular, fits a style or is conventional. Sometimes you may reach a point you're not sure who you are, but as things settle I'm convinced things do work out in time.

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Re: Scrapped Pokémon from Gold and Silver
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2017, 08:25:13 pm »
Wow,that screenshot,if it's real,is really awesome ^^

I like all of these beta pokemon.They really should reuse these concepts.

Torchickens

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Re: Scrapped Pokémon from Gold and Silver
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2017, 11:04:33 am »
Wow,that screenshot,if it's real,is really awesome ^^

I like all of these beta pokemon.They really should reuse these concepts.

I agree :), it would be really cool and I wonder if the unused turtle seen on MicroGroup Game Review volume 14's cover inspired Tirtouga! I remember Ken Sugimori re-released (at least some of, I can't check my book right now sadly) that artwork in Ken Sugimori Works but nothing new concerning them.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2017, 11:04:57 am by Torchickens »
Hello. I actually identify as gender questioning, but nowadays feel more firmly that I identify as female. My sex is male but I like to express myself as female.  She/her pronouns, please.


Thank you Myri for my avatar! Thank you Aeriixion for the cute sprite above! :) Roelof also made different variations of the sprite (which I animated).

Contact:

Email Youtube Twitter
Skype: Torchickens
Bulbapedia Starfy Wiki

Beyond all philosophies are the things that go best for you; what makes you feel content. It's important to always follow your heart, so unless you feel perfectly happy about it don't just follow something because it is popular, fits a style or is conventional. Sometimes you may reach a point you're not sure who you are, but as things settle I'm convinced things do work out in time.