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Lab α: The Lobby => Wiki Discussion => Topic started by: Evie Torchic the Glitch Scientist on October 24, 2010, 02:28:15 pm

Title: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: Evie Torchic the Glitch Scientist on October 24, 2010, 02:28:15 pm
"NIWA" is a network of 'independent' wikis which I believe Zeldawiki and Bulbapedia founded. It has already affiliated with other Nintendo related wikis such as Mariowiki, Metroid Wiki, Pikipedia and one non-Nintendo related wiki: Strategy Wiki.

According to its own website: niwanetwork.org, it promises to support and help grow 'independent' Nintendo wikis. Though in another sense, it also stands as a force, (perhaps a bit of a biased one at that) against wikis run through the Wikia service (where it may be putting up a controversial stance that Wikia are 'at war' with NIWA?).

Here are a few points to consider:

Advantages:
1) If we join them, other members of NIWA especially those who are knowledgeable about non-Pokémon glitches can help support us by contributing to our wiki and cleaning up pages.
2) Consequentially, this will attract more visitors and make GCL a more well known source for the documentation of video game glitches.
3) More visitors to the website means that the community is likely to expand; we have a larger spread of users willing to inform others of their findings and research more glitches.
4) We may be able to get the support of other wikis to help keep our website up.
5) Closer links with other primarily Nintendo related websites.

Disadvantages:

1) (Important): This puts large stress on our website, as well as Operation Time Capsule and The Morass. Joining NIWA is risky and may cost a lot of money to maintain the server.
2) Some of the information (about glitches) on Glitch City Laboratories is already on Bulbapedia, this may be a little awkward if the information contradicts itself/conflicts. Other contributors may feel that there is no reason in contributing to our wiki if known glitches are already covered on another NIWA website. We may be putting ourselves in a narrow situation where we assume that the information about glitches on other NIWA wikis is moved/implemented into our wiki, which in it itself is difficult to do.
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: Yuzihax on October 24, 2010, 03:12:30 pm
edit numero quatro:

okay there's actually, if you look into it, almost no chance that we'd be turned away.

let's do this s**t.
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: Kaena on October 24, 2010, 11:36:30 pm
Server stress is definitely major issue, so we'll have to wait until malacoda says something on that.

Assuming that he agrees to take care of that, it would be good to reconcile our dysfunction with Bulbapedia when it comes to glitches. However, as you mentioned, this would be awkward; Bulbapedia already has information on glitches, but we have greater depth. Perhaps a discussion with the current NIWA would help resolve issues before joining. Maybe a statement like "We're thinking about joining, but are concerned that info currently on our wiki would conflict with that on others" would help start discussion.

Once these problems are solved, I agree with Yuzihax that there is no doubt that they will accept us. After all, they accepted a Pikmin fanon wiki.
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: Abwayax on October 25, 2010, 07:17:23 am
I like the idea but I have 3 concerns, two of which have been voiced already

My concern is that this might limit our scope. We started out doing Pokemon and still are primarily Pokemon, but since we implemented Caspar we have been broadening out. We aren't strictly a Nintendo wiki anymore. This might hurt our case.

That and the fact that we are still unfinished with infrastructure problems.
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: Yuzihax on October 25, 2010, 07:51:08 am
We aren't strictly a Nintendo wiki anymore. This might hurt our case.
StrategyWiki would like to have a word with you.

but yeah considering that strategywiki got the full membership and they're not strictly nintendo means that what we cover isn't going to hurt us any more than it did them.
also it appears that they are considering a WoW wiki at the moment too (http://www.niwanetwork.org/forums/index.php?topic=449.0), so...yeah.

e: also concerning the server and stuff, that s**t messes up regardless if its two or two hundred people on it, so it doesn't really look like that matters very much 'cause of that.
...but i know nothing of servers and s**t so feel free to ignore this if i'm wrong.
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: Sherkel on October 25, 2010, 06:38:56 pm
Based on what Yuzihax said, we should definitely apply for this.
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: Yuzihax on October 26, 2010, 03:23:54 pm
10/26/2010  3:24:26 PM  GARY 'M 9  Yuzihax  Abwayax gave you the go-ahead for contacting the NIWA preliminary
And so I did, wonder what they'll say.

Will post the response whenever I get it.

(also 'preliminary' only means that we are getting confirmation from NIWA as to whether or not we would be applicable, which if confirmed will allow us to continue debating on whether or not to go for it, otherwise we'll just drop it.)
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: Bluelatios on October 30, 2010, 11:07:46 am
I vote yes, it would be beneficial for sure! But server running cost does seem a bit daunting. Adrian, you'd be ok with that?
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: Yuzihax on October 30, 2010, 11:39:39 am
still haven't seen anything nor have I received a response.

e: waiting until tuesday for a response, after which i'm just going to assume that their answer is a 'no' and close the topic.

e2: why did i think being a dick was necessary.
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: blahpy on October 30, 2010, 05:55:52 pm
Did you contact them through their forums?
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: Photon-Phoenix on October 30, 2010, 06:35:28 pm
Try the forums Yuzi. I don't think they check their e-mail much.
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: Yuzihax on October 31, 2010, 12:39:06 pm
The request has been posted (http://www.niwanetwork.org/forums/index.php?topic=481.0), anyone else who is a member on the forums is welcome to jump in the discussion any time and assist in hopefully getting us somewhere.
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: Sasara on December 04, 2010, 05:06:19 pm
</late>

I'm primarily interested in joining NIWA because of the huge boost in activity we'll get. It seems that a final decision was made elsewhere, but I'm unaware of it; are we going to join NIWA if we're more ready?
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: Evie Torchic the Glitch Scientist on December 04, 2010, 05:57:27 pm
</late>

I'm primarily interested in joining NIWA because of the huge boost in activity we'll get. It seems that a final decision was made elsewhere, but I'm unaware of it; are we going to join NIWA if we're more ready?

I haven't heard anything more than the replies from what was posted in Yuzihax's request here: http://www.niwanetwork.org/forums/index.php?topic=481.0 (http://www.niwanetwork.org/forums/index.php?topic=481.0). Adrian Malacoda suggests that this is only a check to see whether we are conceptually eligible.

They aren't making any final decisions at the present moment and are only discussing potential. Xizor, a NIWA coordinator from the niwanetwork.org forums suggested that conceptually once the current memory issues with Glitch City Laboratories (and other Eightzees hosted sites) are resolved we could become "good members". Xizor even suggested a merge with Zelda Chaos (a Wiki focussing on glitches from The Legend of Zelda franchise) to try and resolve the memory issues but no one has approached Adrian Malacoda or Zelda Chaos about that (as far as I know) yet.

Axiomist from WiKirby said "we (referring to NIWA staff) aren't saying yes or no at the moment." He thinks that "conceptually a glitch focused Wiki would be a great inclusion to NIWA's portfolio of offerings" but on the other hand he would prefer "something as strong as Strategy Wiki to be the NIWA glitch partner".
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: SCf3 on December 04, 2010, 06:37:06 pm
let's do this s**t.
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: Sasara on December 04, 2010, 06:38:26 pm
I'm not sure if we want to do a wiki merge. If anything, it should solely be Malacoda's decision.
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: Abwayax on December 08, 2010, 09:54:08 pm
There'd be no point in me having 10 other staff members if any decision was solely mine
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: Evie Torchic the Glitch Scientist on March 09, 2018, 03:30:40 pm
A discussion about this on the NIWA Forums was revived recently. The proposal is for at least affiliation and I'm unsure yet whether Raltseye meant full membership.

I have links to NIWA as I work for the now independent Starfy Wiki, so can discuss this directly with them and keep us updated.

http://www.niwanetwork.org/forums/index.php?topic=1476.0

What are our thoughts?
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: ISSOtm on March 09, 2018, 06:32:33 pm
Regarding the post you wrote, I would also have added that Bulba's pages are unmaintained and tend to say quite some bullshit. (Since it had been argued that we were redundant with them)

Regarding the affiliation itself, I think it's a good idea. Not really much to say besides the obvious "The larger the network, the better."
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: Evie Torchic the Glitch Scientist on March 10, 2018, 05:34:25 am
Regarding the post you wrote, I would also have added that Bulba's pages are unmaintained and tend to say quite some bullshit. (Since it had been argued that we were redundant with them)

Regarding the affiliation itself, I think it's a good idea. Not really much to say besides the obvious "The larger the network, the better."

I don't agree, but see where you're coming from. I feel Bulbapedia organizes its pages well and are generally accurate. There have been inaccurate glitch claims yes (for example I think their Trainer House glitch article needs work I tried the time change method but it didn't work) and in relation to their glitch Pokémon articles not all of the glitch Pokémon effects happen all the time, but from a general perspective Bulbapedia is quite accurate.
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: flor12344 on March 10, 2018, 05:49:48 am
good idea (more glitches the bester)
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: Parzival on March 10, 2018, 10:53:45 am
My head canon:

Bulbapedia is stealing our info from an old cloned version of the site from back before we did the mass update of the Wiki.

i have nothing relevant to add, they're just a shittier fork of our site with a new skin and general info along with their outdated glitch info.
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: Evie Torchic the Glitch Scientist on March 10, 2018, 12:18:20 pm
My head canon:

Bulbapedia is stealing our info from an old cloned version of the site from back before we did the mass update of the Wiki.

i have nothing relevant to add, they're just a shittier fork of our site with a new skin and general info along with their outdated glitch info.

That just sounds unreasonable to reject them though. Regardless if they have taken information from the GlitchDex I don't think it's wrong. They still source us, not all of their information is from the site and they have a lot of information we haven't covered (but is often taken for granted as 'known') such as on their list of glitches pages.
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: ISSOtm on March 10, 2018, 01:09:31 pm
The discussion about Bulba's relevancy is out of this topic, though ; it might be worth arguing over that if NIWA admins think we are redundant over Bulba, but it's not here that it should be discussed.
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: Sasara on March 10, 2018, 03:59:19 pm
There's less of a focus on Bulbapedia for glitches. The site is less structured for such so it seems less comprehensive.

I suggest that if we link to NIWA, then that would add more activity surrounding and people learning about glitchology.
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: Evie Torchic the Glitch Scientist on March 11, 2018, 10:37:25 am
There's less of a focus on Bulbapedia for glitches. The site is less structured for such so it seems less comprehensive.

I suggest that if we link to NIWA, then that would add more activity surrounding and people learning about glitchology.

True. Coverage of the games, anime, manga is more popular/more of Bulbapedia's priority than glitches which only makes sense (these are the 'core' elements of the franchise). At the same time they don't rule them out and (while not as big in number) there are a few interested in covering glitches there like SnorlaxMonster (former head of Bulbapedia Project GlitchDex).

My thoughts too, I think the whole of NIWA has a great number of glitch experts/enthusiasts too and affiliation/membership could encourage a greater interest in the subject.
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: SatoMew on March 12, 2018, 08:57:41 am
I'm fine with us joining the NIWA but please be aware of why it was founded in the first place: it was a way for Bulbapedia to take a stab at Wikia who wanted to buy it (https://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/New_Nintendo_wiki_network_launches). Not to mention the sort of war that existed between Bulbapedia and the Pokémon Wiki on Wikia a decade ago due to plagiarism and similar issues.

My head canon:

Bulbapedia is stealing our info from an old cloned version of the site from back before we did the mass update of the Wiki.

i have nothing relevant to add, they're just a shittier fork of our site with a new skin and general info along with their outdated glitch info.

They aren't doing that but their focus is neither bugs or unused content as both types of information there are a huge mess and one which nobody seems to be interested in. It is currently disservicing their readers so it would actually be an improvement if they removed it altogether and pointed to us as a source for bugs while linking to TCRF as a source for unused content and general datamining. Note that I'm not saying that they shouldn't have info on bugs or unused content at all but that it would be better handled if they limited it to contextual references on the relevant articles (e.g.: mentioning that the Kanto Safari Zone was planned then scrapped for Gold and Silver on the location's article itself, which they already do, and pointing to here and/or TCRF if people want to find out more about it).
Title: Re: NIWA - should we consider joining them?
Post by: Sasara on March 12, 2018, 07:33:21 pm
Moved this thread from Archives to Wiki Discussions since it's being actively discussed.