Glitch City Laboratories Forums

Lab ζ: Le Café du Chrysacier Hameçonné => Debate Wars => Topic started by: Parzival on August 14, 2017, 09:53:31 pm

Title: Riots
Post by: Parzival on August 14, 2017, 09:53:31 pm
What's your stance on the current riots happening due to racism?
There's no judgment here. If someone judges you, I'll... I'll get the fucking mean police on 'em. Anyway...
My stance is that both sides can deal with it.
Title: Re: Riots
Post by: ravioli on August 17, 2017, 05:16:20 am
I absolutely hate communists because they destroyed (and continue to further destroy) my country. So no I don't care if a couple of the dogs get run over, pepper sprayed or maced.
Title: Re: Riots
Post by: ISSOtm on August 17, 2017, 11:42:21 am
I don't see how this slipped from "anti-racism" to "communist", but please fill me in.
Title: Re: Riots
Post by: Parzival on August 17, 2017, 05:41:02 pm
I don't see how this slipped from "anti-racism" to "communist", but please fill me in.
Some of the rioters are Communists and Anarchists.
Title: Re: Riots
Post by: ravioli on August 17, 2017, 08:37:40 pm
I don't see how this slipped from "anti-racism" to "communist", but please fill me in.

Antifa is a staunchly anarchist/communist organization. They can go to hell.
Title: Re: Riots
Post by: ISSOtm on August 18, 2017, 03:07:35 am
Okay but then, ravioli, you're derailing the subject, if they were there for the anti-racism who cares what the rest of their convictions are ...?
Well whatever, since I know nothing about these riots I should probably stop butting in?
Title: Re: Riots
Post by: Krys3000 on August 18, 2017, 07:05:50 am
What ISSOtm doesn't tell you is that he is a supporter of the french far-left party which is associated with the french communists :P (sorry dude  ;D)
Title: Re: Riots
Post by: Parzival on August 18, 2017, 08:42:12 am
Some of these riots could be stopped if people went from supporting parties (almost used Discord-format italics) to supporting individual people.

"WE HATE REPUBLICANS"
And yet I see the "MAGA" hat on your head.
"Well, Trump's alright, I guess..."
Support candidates, not parties, and you could be off doing other s**t than here being an arsehole.
"But you can't."
Yes, you can.
"Our country isn't set up for that!"
Yes, it is.
Title: Re: Riots
Post by: ISSOtm on August 18, 2017, 03:28:50 pm
Also I must point out that "some" relate the FI to the communists, but I don't agree that it is. Again, the people, not the party.

And yes, I didn't vote for the FI but rather for the ideas that they brought in.
Title: Re: Riots
Post by: Krys3000 on August 19, 2017, 02:18:12 am
I know that, I'm just teasing you :)

But to be fair, it's not that people associate them, they associate themselves. Many if not most far-left ideas were once French communist ideas (we're obviously not talking about Soviet communism here) but they had less exposure then because nobody wanted to listen to commies. So now they say they are far-leftists :p

Anyway back to the debate!

Title: Re: Riots
Post by: danny on August 21, 2017, 11:57:15 am
I think riots are dumb. A lot of people (myself included) look at others who steal and break into stores for their 'cause' as idiots and gravitate further away from whatever cause that is, rather than joining it.
Title: Re: Riots
Post by: DoubleNegative on August 21, 2017, 07:55:57 pm
Obviously, AntiFa is only breaking into those stores so they can smash capitalism and distribute the ends of production to the common man.
Title: Re: Riots
Post by: Parzival on August 22, 2017, 07:05:27 am
Obviously, AntiFa is only breaking into those stores so they can smash capitalism and distribute the ends of production to the common man.
Even if big businesses lose... say, 5% of their worth in these break-ins, they're not gonna crumble. Ever. Capitalism is too engrained into the US to disappear over riots.
Title: Re: Riots
Post by: DoubleNegative on August 22, 2017, 07:32:13 am
Obviously, AntiFa is only breaking into those stores so they can smash capitalism and distribute the ends of production to the common man.
Even if big businesses lose... say, 5% of their worth in these break-ins, they're not gonna crumble. Ever. Capitalism is too engrained into the US to disappear over riots.

Bigger issues arise when they attack small businesses. Either way, rioting that way is illegal, so bring in law enforcement and let them do their job.
Title: Re: Riots
Post by: Parzival on August 22, 2017, 01:22:06 pm
Obviously, AntiFa is only breaking into those stores so they can smash capitalism and distribute the ends of production to the common man.
Even if big businesses lose... say, 5% of their worth in these break-ins, they're not gonna crumble. Ever. Capitalism is too engrained into the US to disappear over riots.

Bigger issues arise when they attack small businesses. Either way, rioting that way is illegal, so bring in law enforcement and let them do their job.
This is true. And law enforcement's typically off containing riots.
Title: Re: Riots
Post by: Missing? NO! on September 05, 2017, 01:46:13 pm
Protesting is one thing. Rioting is another.
I think the only time a riot was justified was in Charlottesville. When Neo-Nazis and white supremacists are demonstrating like that, I feel as if riots and violence to stop them is justified. Yes, everyone is entitled to their own free-speech and the right to demonstrate, but, when those viewpoints are hateful, discriminatory, and as toxic as a Nazi ideology is, then yes, "punching a Nazi" is justified.

However, that's the only case where rioting is justified. Looting stores, attacking police, and punching those who disagree with you are no ways to get a point across and affect how your viewpoint is perceived. Attacking people simply because they do not agree with a viewpoint you've presented merely harms the validity of your own argument. While they may be rioting for a good cause, as racism and race inequality is prevalent even in today's society, there are tons of better ways to get that argument across rather than rioting. Peaceful protests, kneeling for the anthem (shoutouts to Colin Kaepernick), and talking with government officials have a much better chance of getting things done than violent rioting does. When options like this exist, rioting cannot be justified.
Title: Re: Riots
Post by: ravioli on September 08, 2017, 08:03:00 pm
Protesting is one thing. Rioting is another.
I think the only time a riot was justified was in Charlottesville. When Neo-Nazis and white supremacists are demonstrating like that, I feel as if riots and violence to stop them is justified. Yes, everyone is entitled to their own free-speech and the right to demonstrate, but, when those viewpoints are hateful, discriminatory, and as toxic as a Nazi ideology is, then yes, "punching a Nazi" is justified.

So when you support an ideology which inadvertently supports an ideology which does not function and will always bring upon a hateful and discriminatory society, its justified to protest in favour of it? Because that's what Marxism is. A failed ideology which when tried to achieve socialism fails every time and crumbles in despair and are miles away from achieving communism.
Title: Re: Riots
Post by: ravioli on September 08, 2017, 08:05:11 pm
Okay but then, ravioli, you're derailing the subject, if they were there for the anti-racism who cares what the rest of their convictions are ...?
Well whatever, since I know nothing about these riots I should probably stop butting in?

So, lets create an alternate situation. Let's say a group of anti-racists sprout up, but they also stand for forcing everybody to put cereal in their arsehole 5 times a day. Would you support them? Because it's the same case as supporting an anti-racist organization, but also spout communist dogma and support communism.

Let's think of the argument for disgruntled marriages with domestic violence. The man hits the woman, but he buys him flowers after. Does one right fix the disgusting wrong? The answer is no, it doesn't.




Obviously, AntiFa is only breaking into those stores so they can smash capitalism and distribute the ends of production to the common man.
Even if big businesses lose... say, 5% of their worth in these break-ins, they're not gonna crumble. Ever. Capitalism is too engrained into the US to disappear over riots.

What big businesses are in local surburbia? Nobody riots and breaks into a fucking Burger King, they riot and loot into Matt's Grocery Store, (an example of a local buissness). People don't attack big businesses. That is rare.

The thing about capitalism is that most people think it is so over-monopolized than it really is. Look around your local town square, and look at your local economy for experience.
Title: Re: Riots
Post by: Parzival on September 12, 2017, 09:24:02 am
The thing about capitalism is that most people think it is so over-monopolized than it really is. Look around your local town square, and look at your local economy for experience.
My local economy is drugs, a Yamaha watercraft monopoly, and a Toyota monopoly.
Title: Re: Riots
Post by: ravioli on September 12, 2017, 12:40:02 pm
The thing about capitalism is that most people think it is so over-monopolized than it really is. Look around your local town square, and look at your local economy for experience.
My local economy is drugs, a Yamaha watercraft monopoly, and a Toyota monopoly.

So you don't buy groceries anywhere? Where do you buy car parts? Where is the local car garage? Local gun store?

Come on now.
Title: Re: Riots
Post by: Parzival on September 13, 2017, 08:59:27 am
The thing about capitalism is that most people think it is so over-monopolized than it really is. Look around your local town square, and look at your local economy for experience.
My local economy is drugs, a Yamaha watercraft monopoly, and a Toyota monopoly.

So you don't buy groceries anywhere? Where do you buy car parts? Where is the local car garage? Local gun store?

Come on now.
Walmart (an ongoing monopoly attempt, i'm counting it as a monopoly because they're almost done), 30 miles out (or online), 40 miles out, 60 miles out.
Come now, gimme harder questions.
Title: Re: Riots
Post by: ravioli on September 13, 2017, 04:57:16 pm
The thing about capitalism is that most people think it is so over-monopolized than it really is. Look around your local town square, and look at your local economy for experience.
My local economy is drugs, a Yamaha watercraft monopoly, and a Toyota monopoly.

So you don't buy groceries anywhere? Where do you buy car parts? Where is the local car garage? Local gun store?

Come on now.
Walmart (an ongoing monopoly attempt, i'm counting it as a monopoly because they're almost done), 30 miles out (or online), 40 miles out, 60 miles out.
Come now, gimme harder questions.

I would appreciate it if you stopped cherry picking big consumer brands around your area because I'm fairly certain they are NOT the only businesses around your area.
Title: Re: Riots
Post by: DoubleNegative on September 13, 2017, 07:51:48 pm
When Neo-Nazis and white supremacists are demonstrating like that, I feel as if riots and violence to stop them is justified. Yes, everyone is entitled to their own free-speech and the right to demonstrate, but, when those viewpoints are hateful, discriminatory, and as toxic as a Nazi ideology is, then yes, "punching a Nazi" is justified.

The issue with this is that you cannot objectively categorize viewpoints like this without lumping in other ideas that you would consider fine.

"Hateful" - expressing hate towards something is free speech. Calling for violence is incitement, which is an actual crime.

"Discriminatory" - the definition of discrimination means taking note of differences. You discriminate between friends and aquaintences. Discrimination is only illegal when it is done arbitrarily in hiring or pricing, or generally in economic relationships.

"Toxic" - a poison produced by biological processes. This probably isn't the word you're looking for.
Title: Re: Riots
Post by: Parzival on September 14, 2017, 06:59:00 am
When Neo-Nazis and white supremacists are demonstrating like that, I feel as if riots and violence to stop them is justified. Yes, everyone is entitled to their own free-speech and the right to demonstrate, but, when those viewpoints are hateful, discriminatory, and as toxic as a Nazi ideology is, then yes, "punching a Nazi" is justified.

The issue with this is that you cannot objectively categorize viewpoints like this without lumping in other ideas that you would consider fine.

"Hateful" - expressing hate towards something is free speech. Calling for violence is incitement, which is an actual crime.

"Discriminatory" - the definition of discrimination means taking note of differences. You discriminate between friends and aquaintences. Discrimination is only illegal when it is done arbitrarily in hiring or pricing, or generally in economic relationships.

"Toxic" - a poison produced by biological processes. This probably isn't the word you're looking for.
Extremist-level hate, discrimination rendered illegal (at this level) long ago, the words they spew might as well be poison from the depths of their body.
Let's not pick apart arguments on technicalities like this, now.
The thing about capitalism is that most people think it is so over-monopolized than it really is. Look around your local town square, and look at your local economy for experience.
My local economy is drugs, a Yamaha watercraft monopoly, and a Toyota monopoly.

So you don't buy groceries anywhere? Where do you buy car parts? Where is the local car garage? Local gun store?

Come on now.
Walmart (an ongoing monopoly attempt, i'm counting it as a monopoly because they're almost done), 30 miles out (or online), 40 miles out, 60 miles out.
Come now, gimme harder questions.

I would appreciate it if you stopped cherry picking big consumer brands around your area because I'm fairly certain they are NOT the only businesses around your area.
I would like to say I was cherry-picking this. The last local businesses only sell products from one brand each, so it's still technically monopolized. Unless you've been here, you'll complain forever about the impossibility, but it's completely true.
Title: Re: Riots
Post by: ravioli on September 14, 2017, 12:06:52 pm
When Neo-Nazis and white supremacists are demonstrating like that, I feel as if riots and violence to stop them is justified. Yes, everyone is entitled to their own free-speech and the right to demonstrate, but, when those viewpoints are hateful, discriminatory, and as toxic as a Nazi ideology is, then yes, "punching a Nazi" is justified.

The issue with this is that you cannot objectively categorize viewpoints like this without lumping in other ideas that you would consider fine.

"Hateful" - expressing hate towards something is free speech. Calling for violence is incitement, which is an actual crime.

"Discriminatory" - the definition of discrimination means taking note of differences. You discriminate between friends and aquaintences. Discrimination is only illegal when it is done arbitrarily in hiring or pricing, or generally in economic relationships.

"Toxic" - a poison produced by biological processes. This probably isn't the word you're looking for.
Extremist-level hate, discrimination rendered illegal (at this level) long ago, the words they spew might as well be poison from the depths of their body.
Let's not pick apart arguments on technicalities like this, now.

Do you think Antifa harasses any actual ''nazis?''. No. They harass ANYBODY from the right wing or who they deem is fascist, like veterans, trump supporters, etc etc.