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Messages - Sherkel

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Art / Re: Metaphysics ideas
« on: September 11, 2019, 04:03:20 pm »
Not a problem! For me when the basic concept of "question everything" first made its way to me I just couldn't make sense of the literally infinite alternate answers, especially seeing as the Internet's a thing. It works out in time, though, if you're determined to just help yourself become the person you want to be. In my case it mostly adds up to "just have fun", like I think you said in another post somewhere.

Absolutely agreed about this place too, by the way. I can't explain it any better than that I simply enjoy this site and forum on some sort of foundational level, whereas nearly every single other community I've been in has amounted to nothing more than temporary means to an end. In some cases I don't feel comfortable with them, but more often I just can't make myself be interested enough to stick around.
Actually, I'm thinking that "meta-map script activation" should be a general name for a class of exploits, just like "arbitrary code execution".
That makes sense given its nature. I can't think of many uses for it off the top of my head, but it makes sense from an organization standpoint, especially considering there will likely be more uses looking forward.

The specific exploit --- using trainer escape to get to meta-map script ID 4 --- should have a more specific name. Where is the mastermind behind "Glitzer Popping"? :P
Rerouting Gaia, grinding Japanese Stadium 2, or otherwise just being awesome..."mastermind" is very apt. If I ever discover something new I'll be sure to take a page out of his book. We could try and come up with a name for that specific example right now, though...The Bankforest?

I am also seeing how it might be difficult to differentiate between variations and consequences, as this specific case of meta-map script activation may be regarded as either a variation or a consequence of text box ID matching. I would tend to say it is a variation, because after seeing the glitched Trainer text box, the player does not need to do anything else special to achieve invalid meta-map script activation.
I could go either way. Text box ID matching isn't much in and of itself, but meta-map script activation is one of the few uses for it.

I think a clear-cut case of variations would be the 2x2 block encounter glitches. The left-facing shore tile glitch is one of its variations, and all of the applications mentioned on the left-facing shore tile glitch page are sub-variations. To trigger them all, the player ultimately does the same thing, although with different setups.
I think I'm starting to see what you mean with the terms. In that case "variation" seems appropriate for all the examples provided.

If we draw a box diagrams of glitches, then variations would be boxes within a box, and consequences would be indicated by arrows pointing from one box to others.
Iiiiii see now...

No new input from me. Just can't come up with anything more to add yet. I think with what's been gotten out of the way we can safely go ahead with reorganizing existing pages. Use of categories is another thing (as you said in the talk page, all the first three Generational ones are bloated, so linking them all separately in the header for each page wouldn't be the best idea. Maybe there could at least be a more prominent category link at the top, though.)
Glad we can agree on where to start with organizing it!

Anyone's welcome to start editing that page. Reorganizing and rewriting it thoroughly could turn it into the opposite of what it was at the start of this thread: an example of how we want other pages to look going forward. (Yes, volunteering everyone includes myself...)

The way I'd define "sub-glitch" is an occurrence or potential procedure that results from the same error in programming as another: I'd call both LGFly and oobLG "LOL sub-glitches". The Pomeg glitch is especially full of them, but I don't know the intricacies of that one too well. About dividing into "variations" and "consequences", I don't see a strong need to do so. So long as the consequences line up reasonably well (the Trainer escape glitch's being encountering a specific Pokémon), I would say they fall under the same umbrella. I suppose that puts me in the "technology" camp. While Meta-map script activation requires an initial step of the Trainer escape glitch and is listed on the page, I would separate the two completely.

As I was typing the above section I realized more and more how the approaches clash, as Meta-map script activation requires reaching the "trainer escape state" and hatching a Jirachi egg requires reaching the "Pomeg state". I think a case-by-case approach can solve this, though: in the case of the Pomeg glitch page, for instance, it should be split up into many, and in the case of the Trainer escape glitch one, there can be a bit in "See also" that says "Meta-map script activation, used for [...], is achieved through some of the same steps of the Trainer escape glitch.")

Did anyone in Discord talk more about this, by the way?
Debate Wars / Re: Religion
« on: September 10, 2019, 03:24:00 pm »
There are "necessarily true things", though, because otherwise nobody in the world would have spent all this time discussing them, as we're both doing now. The question is whether they're clear, and to me religion and spirituality are there to fill the gap that science and technology continue to leave (and arguably how trustworthy those may be to begin with; you might not get any government funding or publicity for all your hard work if it concludes something certain people don't want to hear...). In that sense religion and spirituality are very much the same, but I consider "religion" to be associating yourself firmly with a specific long-standing tradition and "spirituality" to be coming up with your own. Seeing as your own tradition could already be a long-standing one, though, you can see the vagueness in differentiating the two already.

Embracing evil may seem hard because it would feel by definition, they aren't compatible - but it doesn't mean by embracing bad you become a bad person - for instance, in accepting some things are beyond our ability to love it liberates us, and makes concepts like death, pain easier to accept; because you respect they are part of the world you were born in, even if you don't fully integrate with it.
I'll accept the existence of a shark, but sure won't choose to get near one or let it bite me. Basically what you said.
Art / Re: Metaphysics ideas
« on: September 10, 2019, 02:46:16 pm »
This diagram is all over the place and I'm not sure what some of this has to do with metaphysics, why this is in art, or even if it's serious, considering "silly path analogies" is an actual part of the diagram.
Nah, it is serious, albeit maybe not very suited for a technology-oriented community (though inactivity here does help keep away the spam of holier-than-thou backlash it might receive in another). I've been there before, and ideas will be all over the place to the point you'll likely be embarrassed at yourself on more than one occasion. In a way I was lucky to come across concepts that stuck with me on the sooner side compared to most, but it still takes a lot of cross-referencing of different sources and experiences to decide where you really stand. And even if one stance differs from others, they all have their place in the grand scheme of things, hence "why a division by 0 can be anything you want it to be" to quote the original post.
Site Announcements / What do you think about organization here?
« on: September 09, 2019, 01:08:34 pm »
Thanks to sustained interest in the field from various parties over time, this wiki has never stopped growing. However, on a higher level, there's a consensus that the way the pages are organized is still on the wrong side of history, in addition to other site-wide elements. Is there too much of a mix of technical information, procedural outlines, and the cool results that all originally brought us here, without the three being clearly separated enough? Would new templates aid future edits? What about the current manual of style? Would a TVTropes-inspired system make the wealth of pages easier to navigate?

Collectively, we don't know, other than that we could do with something along those lines. Any visitor is free to suggest what that might be.

An excellent discussion was opened here on this subject. If you have anything to say or are curious what proposals have been made, come check it out!
I am surprised that you seem to think this page is an example of good organization. It does have a lot of good information like I mentioned above, but I've always felt that it is an organizational mess.
I didn't mean to imply that. While it's a big example of inconsistent structuring, I think it can also serve as an example of how well certain systems in place already work despite that.

Reordering the sections in that page would benefit it, but between us it seems to be unclear whether each main section should
be a sub-glitch (which I'd do) or whether technical information, procedures, and results should be the main sections. Maybe first dividing it by sub-glitch and then by each of those three would be a good precedent to follow for pages like that?
Alright. In the end...I don't feel the "clash". However, that's not all there is to discuss and I'm not saying it can't exist; if another user does see a significant difficulty in navigating a page when they just want a technical rundown, they should say so. Once again, as you said, as many users as possible should weigh in, in particular to see if that's an issue.

I'll use the Trainer escape glitch page as an example for a handful of things again. For a glitch scientist, there are technical explanation sections. They don't take up much of the page, but they can easily be clicked to and there's not a whole lot to say on that front anyway. The glitch artist is plenty satisfied for obvious reasons. The glitch technologist can click directly to any section labeled "method" or "procedure". A possible solution in the case of this page, if the clash is significantly perceived, would be to reorder the sections. (There are other issues with it--for instance, the phrase "for some reason" should never appear for any reason--but those are sidenotes for now.)

About one of your main proposals, while the page can do with some cleanup, I don't see how additional collapsibles would help it as there's already the index at the top. Envisioning collapsible sections on there, I can see them making the page look worse, but not better or cleaner. On the topic of collapsibles, though, the "Major glitches" one at the top would be a good tool if it were better-maintained; additionally, a "Generation I glitches" template at the top would be better for page visibility than continuing to rely on the sidebar and categories in the footer, some of which are very particular instead of the central hub pages something like "Generation I glitches" should be. Somehow linking these folders to the categories would be a huge help, and is conceivably possible.

Templates...hmm. A good quality of life addition in theory, but what use would they practically serve? The wiki's pages are varied enough that there is no "one size fits all" or even "one size fits a significant amount", at least as I see it. Unless a decent handful of users agree on the clash being an issue, in which case one that separates procedure, method, and results could be incorporated into most of the pages under Major glitches. For the Dexes, it's already common sense to copy an existing one and replace what's in each field. If there's a specific way a particular template could be improved (the GlitchDex base stats one isn't much different to any old table, and arguably even less convenient), that could be its own discussion.

The style guide could do with a cleanup or rewrite given how it hasn't aged with the rest of the site. About hexadecimals,
Quote from: bbbbbbbbba
1. The poll didn't have an option "anything, as long as it is consistent". I think it is rather likely that most people who voted on any of the first four options would be more OK with any of the other three than with the status quo.

2. Well, I am already proposing across-the-board changes. And we don't actually need to go over 3,400 pages. Simply put something in the manual of guide, and edit some major pages to establish the rule, maybe mass edit Dex pages with robots --- I believe the rest will be brought in line in time.
Good calls. I don't have any counterpoints.

Quote from: bbbbbbbbba
3. We might not be able to look over every page, but we are able to look over every future edit. In this regard, our lack of wiki activity (especially new contributors) could actually be an advantage. We can put something above the edit area to the effect of: "We are serious about our style guide, but don't worry about it if you are new to the site. Our staff will review any edits and gladly fix any style problems for you!" I don't think that would be a deterrent to any new contributor.
That's a good start. I'll throw that on the main page right now, because...
Quote from: bbbbbbbbba
the status quo of inconsistency may be a deterrent to some new contributors. How so? Editing the wiki is mostly thankless work. I think most people do that because they believe they are creating something good. And inconsistency does not look good --- at least to the conformists it doesn't. So those inconsistencies may be enough to make them think again about contributing.

It might be argued that there are more non-conformists out there than conformists. But even then, I don't think the approach of "feel free to edit, staff will catch problems" would alienate non-conformists. It might alienate anti-conformists, but I don't believe anti-conformists would be a significant portion of the crowd. Maybe we can also mention that we are open to exceptions, as long as there is a good reason --- that can be determined on a case-by-case basis.

As a bonus, if we can make it a wiki task to fix the pages to adhere to a more strict style guide, it might well incentivize some lurkers to contribute! It isn't unthinkable that, having gotten comfortable with wiki editing, they go on to contribute in other ways, like bringing new information to the site, right?

(Not sure if I have access to the editing area itself. For now it's on the main page.)

Good suggestions for the new style guide so far. I'll add any if I think of them. In the meantime, a potential new manual of style is anyone's to write.

CSS isn't something I'm familiar with, though I should probably do something about that. I can edit the forum CSS, but that's tied to the main site's source code on Monarch Pass as I recall. Probably best to wait until the forthcoming SMF update to address those issues.

That's all I can think of to add for now. Page visibility is the first priority to me, but these elements all tie into it.
General Discussion / Re: The Glitchy Thread of Topiclessness (#3)
« on: September 06, 2019, 08:21:08 pm »
Not only was there the Sans reveal yesterday, but it was also revealed that one of the new composers hired by Game Freak to work on Toby Fox. He even mentioned that some of his tracks were arranged by Hitomi "the good one" Sato! :D

My favorite musical philosophy will meet some of my favorite musical content. I might even try the game itself at this rate!
Introductions / Re: don't entirely know what to call this thread
« on: September 05, 2019, 10:09:18 pm »
Any reason you're not just changing your username? Do you still have the email address for your old account?

Also, if I recall correctly, you did a lot. Empirical glitching (the Red/Green GlitchDex, possibly?), but still, a lot.

You're always welcome anyhow, whether you'd prefer this account or your old one. :)
General Discussion / Re: The Glitchy Thread of Topiclessness (#3)
« on: September 05, 2019, 10:00:36 pm »
did they really just

release Team Rocket fighter skins

then IMMEDIATELY fucking steamroll it with FUCKING SANS
I had to see this to believe it. I thought I didn't care about Smash, Just wow.

Also, while I haven't been keeping up with Sword and Shield news, I very much respect that reference. For the bright future! :)
Generation I Glitch Discussion / Re: Odd Pokédex Glitch
« on: September 05, 2019, 09:53:49 pm »
RB:220's Pokédex data comes from RAM address AA00, so if SRAM is locked (which it should be most of the time), reading it will return FF bytes instead of whatever's there when you save or load. Thus you get "9" tiles all over the place in various similar circumstances.
Forum Discussion / Re: Uploading problems.
« on: September 05, 2019, 09:45:36 pm »
According to the Admin CP, the individual file limit is indeed 8000 KB (in addition to the per-post limit). The only thing that stood out as odd was that the size limit for the attachments folder (where all attachments in the history of this forum, or at least the ones still accessible) was set to 2147483647 KB instead of having no limit, but we're obviously nowhere close to that. There is clearly a bug, though, if this happened the way you said.
Thanks very much for making this post. Your efforts are invaluable, some of which are also visible under the recent changes section. Most of what I've said thus far seems to just be agreeing with your suggestions, but like Photon I'll be looking over each part of this with more detail to see if I come up with anything to add.

EDIT: On a quick editing spree at the moment, but don't take that as an indicator of me being ready to process things in depth. :P
General Discussion / Re: The Glitchy Thread of Topiclessness (#3)
« on: September 01, 2019, 05:48:53 am »
I'm generally okay with them if they're well-covered.
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