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Author Topic: Level 32 glitch trainers?  (Read 472 times)

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TectonicImprov

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Level 32 glitch trainers?
« on: March 06, 2019, 01:14:06 pm »
Hey guys, I've been lurking this website for a while now and I've decided just now to make an account because I've run into a problem replicating a certain glitch. I'm trying to fight this guy and initiate the Lorelei battle through a gameshark code. The only problem is their levels are all level 32. But according to this their levels should be in the 215. I was wondering if anyone in here knows what would cause the deviation in level. Thank you.

Sherkel

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Re: Level 32 glitch trainers?
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2019, 04:36:23 pm »
What exactly are you trying to replicate?

The page you linked doesn't mention anything about Lorelei rosters or include the string "215", but chances are you should be looking here instead. Or maybe not? More information on what you're trying to do would be helpful.

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TectonicImprov

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Re: Level 32 glitch trainers?
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2019, 05:10:25 pm »
In that link the author initiates a fight with the glitch Pokemon ゥ₽. Which becomes a trainer battle with Lorelei where you have to fight six of ゥ₽. In that fight, the level of every ゥ₽ is 215. However, when I attempt to replicate this with a gameshark code or missingno glitch, everything else is the same, except for the levels, which are all 32. I looked through the trainerdex for Lorelei and couldn't find any roster of glitch Pokemon that had six copies of ゥ₽ in there, so I'm not sure if that'll help me here. But I'm not really an expert on this, either.

Sherkel

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Re: Level 32 glitch trainers?
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2019, 05:17:42 pm »
Strange, as none of the rosters list "hex F4", or even "level 32" for that matter...with the Old Man glitch, the roster is determined by what the level would be if it were a wild Pokémon, the same as with the Trainer escape glitch. Seeing as those don't appear, maybe you're misremembering? If you have codes active, though, that can lead to unintended side effects.

EDIT: Sorry, messed something up. All trainers encountered through the Old Man glitch pull their rosters from class 0. From a quick look, a handful of the rosters have teams of all level 32 Pokémon, and a handful also have teams where they're all level 215. Which one did you encounter and which were you looking for?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 07:15:01 pm by Sherkel »

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TectonicImprov

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Re: Level 32 glitch trainers?
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2019, 08:28:33 pm »
I think I got you looking in the wrong place. https://glitchcity.info/wiki/GlitchDex/RB:244 this glitch pokemon, when inputting a gameshark code to encounter it in the wild, will trigger a trainer battle coincidentally with Lorelei. When this occurs, she'll have six of the glitch Pokemon from the aforementioned link. I didn't see anything relating to what I'm looking for in the link you posted.

Edit: I think I made a mistake calling this a glitch trainer when it technically doesn't seem to be.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 08:29:42 pm by TectonicImprov »

Sherkel

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Re: Level 32 glitch trainers?
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2019, 09:07:12 pm »
When you encounter RB:244, the level it would be at is the roster number Lorelei picks from. If using the Old Man glitch, the roster is picked from the possible ones for trainer class 0, rather than her own.

If you're using an encounter code and getting rosters from trainer class 0, then apparently the same applies, but if you're modifying the memory from outside, you're not playing the same game that's described in the wiki.

About terminology, technically it's a normal trainer with a glitch (i.e. not #01) roster, but that's a minor thing, nothing to worry about.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 09:20:15 pm by Sherkel »

Sticking to quality control and moderation until I sort some IRL matters out. I check in here almost daily and will answer questions, but not all of them.
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Re: Level 32 glitch trainers?
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2019, 10:20:09 pm »
I see. So if I'm understanding you right, the reason why ゥ₽ is level 32 when using an encounter code is because the game takes from roster 32 of Lorelei. If this is the case, is there a way to change which roster the game takes from? I'm unsure how in this text LP Lorelei (and the rest of the E4, for that matter, Bruno, Agatha, and Lance all send out their respective glitch pokemon) are all level 215 when mine stay consistently at level 32.

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Re: Level 32 glitch trainers?
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2019, 02:09:22 am »
When starting a battle, the game has two parameters. If the opponent is a Pokémon, they are its ID and level, so that's how I'll be referring to them.
If the ID is 240 of above, it's special-cased to a Trainer battle; the Trainer class is obtained by subtracting 241 from the ID (hence Jacred at ID 240, Game Freak can't code for crap), and the "level" parameter is instead interpreted as the roster ID. The amount of Pokémon, their species and levels are then pulled from ROM, but are NOT directly related to the roster ID (so the level 32 Pokémon is but a coincidence).

I've read somewhere that Trainers encountered from the Old Man Glitch pull their rosters from Trainer call #0 or maybe 256, although I'd have to check the game's code to be sure about that, which I currently cba to do :P
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Sherkel

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Re: Level 32 glitch trainers?
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2019, 08:07:44 am »
From personal experience, I remember using the Old Man glitch on my Blue when I was younger and fought rosters #EC and #06/#2D despite the trainer classes being Chief and Prof. Oak, respectively. (Though, the second one doesn't make much sense, as no character corresponds to hex 06 or 2D.)

Sticking to quality control and moderation until I sort some IRL matters out. I check in here almost daily and will answer questions, but not all of them.
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Re: Level 32 glitch trainers?
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2019, 08:24:17 am »
Remind yourself that the LP you referenced (Let's horribly break Pokemon Blue) is 11 years old.
First, it was heavily Gamesharked, and if you're not using the same GS codes as the author, you'll probably get inconsistent results.
Second - at the time, a lot was still unknown about the game, and this was an era before disassemblers/debuggers/static code analysis became mainstream. Back then, people were just theorizing about how things work by observing the results (also known as "empirical glitching"). The point is, you probably shouldn't take that LP as a source of up-to-date, reliable Pokémon glitch knowledge.

Long answer to the question

In that LP the Gameshark code 01F4D8CF was probably used, to force an encounter with Lorelei. The thing is, this code not only changes the trainer to 0xF4 (Lorelei), but also changes all of her Pokémon to 0xF4 (the glitch Pokémon you wanted).
So her roster isn't anything that comes from the game directly. It's just a side effect of the Gameshark code that was used. There is no roster anywhere in the game that has six 0xF4 Pokémon, it's just Gameshark.

When using the Gameshark code and encountering the trainer in the grass (this also happens if you encounter a trainer through the Old Man trick, because shore tiles are really just grass tiles), you'll get rosters from a normally unexistent trainer class #256. Here are some details about it.

As you can see on the list, the roster number that has level 215 Pokémon is roster #03. You can use this GS code to change the current roster to roster 3, which will give you level 215 Pokémon: 01035DD0.

This way, if you encounter a trainer in the grass, you'll get the roster 3, which is:
TRAINER (hex CD) - level 215
Pidgeot (hex 97) - level 215
Ivysaur (hex 09) - level 215
TRAINER (hex CD) - level 215
Nidoking (hex 07) - level 215
Fearow (hex 23) - level 215

Of course, keep in mind that the GameShark code used to encounter Lorelei will change this roster into:
Glitch (hex F4) - level 215
Glitch (hex F4) - level 215
Glitch (hex F4) - level 215
Glitch (hex F4) - level 215
Glitch (hex F4) - level 215
Glitch (hex F4) - level 215

For curiosity, if you want to see her real Pokémon roster, just like it appears in the article, try activating the Gameshark code, going into grass, then once you're on the "LORELEI wants to fight" textbox, disable the code.

There's also a natural, no-cheating-devices method of changing the roster. The trainers encountered in grass via Gameshark/Old Man trick will use the last roster ID that was loaded in memory. So if you fight different trainers beforehand (real trainers, not Gamesharked trainers!), you can change the last loaded roster ID.
See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Zvl4YkeSJM (turn on subtitles, they contain the old YouTube annotations).

Short answer

Use these GS codes:
01035DD0
01F4D8CF
qÁF qÁF qÁF qÁF qÁF qÁF qÁF qÁF qÁF qÁF qÁF qÁF qÁF qÁF qÁF qÁF qÁF qÁF qÁF qÁF qÁF qÁF qÁF qÁF qÁF qÁF

Sherkel

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Re: Level 32 glitch trainers?
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2019, 10:54:00 am »
The trainers encountered in grass via Gameshark/Old Man trick will use the last roster ID that was loaded in memory.
Ah, that explains it. Thanks! Surprised it took it this long to get documented here, but I suppose it's a pretty minor glitch by today's standards (leaving the category for notability, though).

Also, wow, welcome back. Haven't seen you in ages! :D

Sticking to quality control and moderation until I sort some IRL matters out. I check in here almost daily and will answer questions, but not all of them.
I don't have a habit of keeping Discord open, so direct inquiries are preferred through here.

TectonicImprov

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Re: Level 32 glitch trainers?
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2019, 12:03:44 pm »
Remind yourself that the LP you referenced (Let's horribly break Pokemon Blue) is 11 years old.
First, it was heavily Gamesharked, and if you're not using the same GS codes as the author, you'll probably get inconsistent results.
Second - at the time, a lot was still unknown about the game, and this was an era before disassemblers/debuggers/static code analysis became mainstream. Back then, people were just theorizing about how things work by observing the results (also known as "empirical glitching"). The point is, you probably shouldn't take that LP as a source of up-to-date, reliable Pokémon glitch knowledge.

Long answer to the question

In that LP the Gameshark code 01F4D8CF was probably used, to force an encounter with Lorelei. The thing is, this code not only changes the trainer to 0xF4 (Lorelei), but also changes all of her Pokémon to 0xF4 (the glitch Pokémon you wanted).
So her roster isn't anything that comes from the game directly. It's just a side effect of the Gameshark code that was used. There is no roster anywhere in the game that has six 0xF4 Pokémon, it's just Gameshark.

When using the Gameshark code and encountering the trainer in the grass (this also happens if you encounter a trainer through the Old Man trick, because shore tiles are really just grass tiles), you'll get rosters from a normally unexistent trainer class #256. Here are some details about it.

As you can see on the list, the roster number that has level 215 Pokémon is roster #03. You can use this GS code to change the current roster to roster 3, which will give you level 215 Pokémon: 01035DD0.

This way, if you encounter a trainer in the grass, you'll get the roster 3, which is:
TRAINER (hex CD) - level 215
Pidgeot (hex 97) - level 215
Ivysaur (hex 09) - level 215
TRAINER (hex CD) - level 215
Nidoking (hex 07) - level 215
Fearow (hex 23) - level 215

Of course, keep in mind that the GameShark code used to encounter Lorelei will change this roster into:
Glitch (hex F4) - level 215
Glitch (hex F4) - level 215
Glitch (hex F4) - level 215
Glitch (hex F4) - level 215
Glitch (hex F4) - level 215
Glitch (hex F4) - level 215

For curiosity, if you want to see her real Pokémon roster, just like it appears in the article, try activating the Gameshark code, going into grass, then once you're on the "LORELEI wants to fight" textbox, disable the code.

There's also a natural, no-cheating-devices method of changing the roster. The trainers encountered in grass via Gameshark/Old Man trick will use the last roster ID that was loaded in memory. So if you fight different trainers beforehand (real trainers, not Gamesharked trainers!), you can change the last loaded roster ID.
See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Zvl4YkeSJM (turn on subtitles, they contain the old YouTube annotations).

Short answer

Use these GS codes:
01035DD0
01F4D8CF

That seemed to do the trick! Thank you all so much for the help!

Let's Horribly Break Pokemon Blue is old as hell, yeah. I wouldn't be referencing it for glitch knowledge if I wasn't trying to create a video version of the LP. This isn't the first time I've run into problems attempting to replicate some of the events but at this point I had gotten tired of compromising and figured I'd try and ask people who knew what they were talking about.

Sherkel

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Re: Level 32 glitch trainers?
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2019, 12:49:07 pm »
What's the reason you want to make a video version? Might I suggest using stuff like LOL glitch derivatives/item pack quantities/CoolTrainer corruption instead, seeing as a lot of what used to need external memory editing (GameShark) can be done through internal means now? (I don't know anything about the LP in question besides the title, but I'm assuming it's a "glitch showcase" of sorts.)

Sticking to quality control and moderation until I sort some IRL matters out. I check in here almost daily and will answer questions, but not all of them.
I don't have a habit of keeping Discord open, so direct inquiries are preferred through here.

TectonicImprov

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Re: Level 32 glitch trainers?
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2019, 11:57:24 pm »
The LP is a favorite of mine from back in the day, I wanted to adapt it to video format mostly for the sake of it. I also try to stay as accurate as possible when it comes to replicating things, even if the processes are archaic.

That said, once I'm wrapped up adapting it (only two more episodes left!) I do plan on making a follow up with more up to date knowledge.

Sherkel

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Re: Level 32 glitch trainers?
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2019, 06:58:42 pm »
Can't argue with that. Hope it goes well. :) On a similar note, I'm being reminded now of a playthrough of Red/Blue where someone got a full 'Dex with 0 badges. It was after Brock skip was discovered, but before basically everything else. Most of it was repeated uses of the Escape glitch, so it had to be edited in a way that made it less monotonous. I'd be interested in seeing that again if anyone else remembers more about it...

Sticking to quality control and moderation until I sort some IRL matters out. I check in here almost daily and will answer questions, but not all of them.
I don't have a habit of keeping Discord open, so direct inquiries are preferred through here.