G/S/C glitch discussion

[Evie the Mother Hen ☽ ❤]

Good luck. You commented on my Johto guard glitch video right? I was wrong about the Pokémon maybe being a ????? (donor)/Slowpoke (recipient) hybrid. It turns out that GS:000 has the mini-sprite of Slowpoke on Pokémon Silver, but not on Gold/Crystal (where it's glitched). In his routing for a Pokémon Gold glitched run, Werster said you get a "Slowpoke hybrid" on Silver and it made me think that Pokémon Silver's bad clone glitch worked differently, though since you got a ????? (FF) it seems there are no problems. I'm sorry for this error.

(all ????? 00 on Gold)
(all ????? 00 on Silver)

You commented on my video that you put it into the Daycare and received it like that instead of ????? (FF); which has a glitched mini-sprite on Silver like on Gold. This suggests something wrong happened.

Before the time you tried withdrawing it but it didn't work, did you get only one level 0 bad clone? I've heard that if there's only one level 0 bad clone then its not a 'useful' one.

Also, did ????? have a different icon than Slowpoke before you put it into the Daycare Center? This would mean it was not a 00 before.

[Xelrog T. Apocalypse]

What I did was make three Bad Clones of Togepi (I was cloning 3 at a time because I've seen information claiming that the more you clone at once, the more likely you are to get a Bad Clone, but in my own experience, I don't think this is true at all, because all three clones are always identical--either good or glitched). They were level 0, had no name in the PC box (but a glitched Status screen), and were of the opposite gender of the original, so they were verifiably Bad Clones.

I withdrew one, which still had the mini-icon of the cloned Pokemon, Togepi, as from what I understand, a Bad Clone is actually a hybrid of the pokemon you were trying to clone and a ????? 00, correct? I deposited it in the Day Care and immediately withdrew it to get a level 1 ????? 00, with the Slowpoke icon. If I step outside while the pokemon is in the Day Care, it has the trainer's map sprite, so it's definitely a ????? 00.

Putting it into the Day Care is supposed to stabilize the hybrid and result in a clean 00, yes? I can't really list where all the 00's I've used have come from, but I've been playing with a menagerie of them--the first was created from a Bad Clone, and I think the rest resulted from using the Celebi Egg Glitch with two pokemon who had identical movesets and no third attack, resulting in a ????? 00 egg.

I should note that this has always been the case for me. A while back, I performed the Celebi Egg Glitch as it was intended, to obtain a clean Celebi, and deposited a Bad Clone into the Day Care, receiving a ????? 00 upon withdrawing it. Same Slowpoke icon. Depositing it and withdrawing it a second time did not result in an FF.

As far as I can figure it, a Bad Clone is an unstable hybrid of the cloned pokemon and ????? 00, which, upon depositing and withdrawing, becomes a stabilized 00 which will not change any more when deposited in the PC or Day Care. A ????? 00 hatched from an egg--the "clean" kind that you described in your first post (at least I assume so, as I did not breed a stabilized 00 with a Ditto, but instead used the Celebi Egg Glitch to obtain a 00 egg illegitimately)--is actually an unstable 00, and will change into an FF when placed in the Day Care.

Also, this is some additional information completely unrelated to the above, but may be useful... it's true that if you deposit an unstable 00 into the Day Care and try to withdraw it, it will have grown several hundred levels and will be impossible to retrieve because the amount of money the couple asks for is glitched, so the best option is to use Rare Candies to raise it to level 1 or (I imagine preferably) 2. But, you can also put the ????? 00 in a battle and let it gain EXP that way--after one battle, however much EXP it gains, it will (tediously) level up to 255, then 0, then 1, then 2, then 3, where it stops. It's then stabilized. So while Rare Candies are preferable, leveling it via a battle is not an unsafe method.

[Evie the Mother Hen ☽ ❤]

OK, I think I understand it better now, thank you. I was originally under the impression that all bad clones were 00/FF hybrids instead of the original Pokémon/00 hybrids but this was a silly assumption because the bad clone has the sprite of the original Pokémon.

I've never performed the Celebi egg glitch before due to not owning Pokémon Stadium 2 or a Gold with a battery that works, and ostensibly it is impossible on VBA due to it running on 60fps when there are more frames in game, but that was proven wrong as a VBM file was made of it working (though the file is now deleted so I can't view it...).

You are right. The mini-sprite is what the donor Pokémon is (which would be Togepi), while the Pokémon it reverts to is what the recipient Pokémon is. Since when you deposited the bad clone into the daycare and on taking it out the mini-sprite changed to Slowpoke, it indeed changed into a stable ????? (00) because that is the mini-sprite of ????? (00) in Silver.

So when you 'illegitimately' got a 00 egg, I presume this was done by performing the Celebi egg glitch but with no third move instead of the third move as Beat Up? Thanks for telling me you can do this to get a 00/FF hybrid. Are you going to try this to get FF again, then?

[Xelrog T. Apocalypse]

I take it that means the only cartridge you own is a Gold one with a dead save battery? Because the glitch works in all three Gen 2 games.

And yes, that's correct--you can use the Celebi Egg Glitch to obtain any pokemon (bar Ledyba and the FC-FF ?????s) holding any item. The species is determined by the third move and the item held by the fourth. If there's no fourth move, the resulting pokemon will hold nothing, and if there's no third, it will be a ????? 00. I bred two Magikarps whose only moves were Splash in the glitch, hence getting my eggs. Again, I never bred a stable 00 with a Ditto, so I don't know if that will also produce a 00 which will turn into an FF when placed in the Day Care. Either way, the egg method is useful because, unlike ?????s, you can duplicate the eggs as much as you like, thus giving you as many 00's or FF's as you need.

As for my own needs, I did manage to repeat my actions with another 00 egg I had. I hatched it, leveled it up (using the battle method, as I lacked any Rare Candies) to 3, and am currently saved in front of the Day Care Man. I'll change it to an FF later today. I did so once before with the same sequence of events, but then I wasted one of my TM's on the FF, forgetting that it wasn't the final species I was after.

What I'm trying to do is to get a ????? FE. The only way I've found to do this is to get a ????? FF, use the Johto Guard Glitch to trade a Furret to Yellow version resulting in a ァ / g J 1, train it to level 60 in Yellow so that it becomes a ゥ/ 4ァ 4,, then trade THAT back to Gen 2.

[Evie the Mother Hen ☽ ❤]

Yeah, I'm aware of that. Actually, I own Gold/Silver and Crystal, but the save batteries on all of them are dead, with Gold being the most recent one to die.

And yes, that's correct--you can use the Celebi Egg Glitch to obtain any pokemon (bar Ledyba and the FC-FF ?????s) holding any item. The species is determined by the third move and the item held by the fourth. If there's no fourth move, the resulting pokemon will hold nothing, and if there's no third, it will be a ????? 00. I bred two Magikarps whose only moves were Splash in the glitch, hence getting my eggs. Again, I never bred a stable 00 with a Ditto, so I don't know if that will also produce a 00 which will turn into an FF when placed in the Day Care. Either way, the egg method is useful because, unlike ?????s, you can duplicate the eggs as much as you like, thus giving you as many 00's or FF's as you need.

I knew that. Thanks for explaining though.

What I'm trying to do is to get a ????? FE. The only way I've found to do this is to get a ????? FF, use the Johto Guard Glitch to trade a Furret to Yellow version resulting in a ァ / g J 1, train it to level 60 in Yellow so that it becomes a ゥ/ 4ァ 4,, then trade THAT back to Gen 2.

I don't think this will work. Having ゥ/ 4ァ 4, in the Cable Club caused some undocumented glitch where the stats of the Pokémon in Yellow's party according to Gold corrupt (I had a ゥ/ 4ァ 4 and Chansey, Gold said Yellow had a Chansey and a blank space that was ????? [FF], not FE) and both Pokémon were said to be abnormal and couldn't be traded. I'll make a video of it and look into it more.

The abnormal message occurs when a) the equivalent Pokémon between Generation I and II doesn't match and b) when the donor byte doesn't match the recipient (these might not be definitive reasons but they're factors).  It also occurs when trying to trade an 'M (FF) or Q to Gold/Silver for some reason, even though the game says it's a ????? (FF).
 
????? (FE) and (FC) are dangerous to keep. You can deposit them, but they appear at level 255 from the deposit screen/box regardless of their actual level and when you exit it the game freezes. You can use move PkMn w/o Mail to successfully store them in a box, but every time you go to that box the game freezes when you try to exit it, so you effectively lose a box.

The only thing I can think of where ????? (FE) or (FC) might be useful is so you own 252 instead of 251 Pokémon (this happened to me once when cheating to encounter some variant in the wild and catching it). Theoretically, you could evolve FE to 000 at level 3 or FC to 000 at level 18 (not sure if this would register it in the Pokédex) but I can't think of a way to get them.

[Xelrog T. Apocalypse]

Well, shoot... that was a lot of effort for nothing, then. Does that mean that the FE variety is as of now unobtainable without the use of a cheating device?

And, assuming it were to be obtained, what if one were to never put it in a box and instead keep it permanently in the party? Are there any known dangers to that?

[Evie the Mother Hen ☽ ❤]

Seems you can effectively use (FE) or (FC) and store it/withdraw it from a box, just you have to keep using move pkmn w/o mail each time. The game will save it into the party/into the box even though the game will freeze upon exiting, so this means you can just reset the game to work around the freeze. The game just displays "level 255" but when you put it in your party it's at its normal level.

Well, shoot... that was a lot of effort for nothing, then. Does that mean that the FE variety is as of now unobtainable without the use of a cheating device?

Actually, perhaps it is obtainable. Theoretically you could use 8F or ws m in Generation I to make a Pokémon's third move TM54.

Presuming that we redirected the game to the third item with TheZZAZZGlitch's bootstrapping code, we could use the following code (RB):

Item3: Lemonade (3E), quantity 254 (FE)
Item4: TM34 (EA), quantity 117 (75h)
Item5: TM09 (D1), quantity 201 (C9h)

Code: [Select]

WRA1: D322 3E FE                  ld a, FE : Put FEh into a
WRA1: D324 EA 75 D1               ld (D175), a  : Put FEh into D175
WRA1: D327 C9   ret
(You could encounter a 000 variant through the Old Man glitch or Trainer-Fly glitch to duplicate your items)

This code would change the first Pokémon's third move, and then you could trade it over to Generation II to perform the Celebi egg glitch with it.

Another fun thing you might be able to do is get a PkMnaPkMnゥ ♂ fPkMnk, raise it to level 90 to make it learn TM53 (FD), make it the third move. Do the Pokémon merge glitch ("Q glitch") to make the donor a stable Pokémon that can evolve by level up or stone (it'll say 'not able' on using the relevant stone even though it is and pressing it will work), evolve it and then trade it over to Generation II and do the Celebi egg glitch to get an egg within an egg (lol). I don't know if this would work though, and it would be harder than the 8F / w sm method.

And, assuming it were to be obtained, what if one were to never put it in a box and instead keep it permanently in the party? Are there any known dangers to that?

I don't think so. It's quite good in terms of its base stats, too (assuming Bulbapedia has the right stats) but 00 is better and would probably be classed as 'uber' if it was used in competitive play.

[Xelrog T. Apocalypse]

It's quite good in terms of its base stats, too (assuming Bulbapedia has the right stats) but 00 is better and would probably be classed as 'uber' if it was used in competitive play.

Think so? I was interested in it because half its stats are 0 while the other half are essentially maximum, along with its moveset. 00's are somewhat high, but it doesn't have a base Special Attack in the 230's.

[blahpy]

So, it looks like TheZZAZZGlitch has managed to run his own code within Gold version?

[Evie the Mother Hen ☽ ❤]

It's quite good in terms of its base stats, too (assuming Bulbapedia has the right stats) but 00 is better and would probably be classed as 'uber' if it was used in competitive play.

Think so? I was interested in it because half its stats are 0 while the other half are essentially maximum, along with its moveset. 00's are somewhat high, but it doesn't have a base Special Attack in the 230's.

I dunno. ????? (FE)'s base special defense is paper thin while (00) will be hard to take down no matter what due to its 224 base HP, 188 base defense and 213 base sp def. (I don't know how much Ho-Oh's Sacred Fire or a strong Fighting type move would do to it, though) It learns Rest, Sleep Talk to tank and some good moves like Curse, Frustration, Fire Blast and Toxic.

Maybe we should battle over TGB Dual with them to see how good they are (I live in the UK so there may be communication errors if someone is interested and they're from the USA or somewhere else that's relatively far away, unfortunately).

edit: The game would probably freeze on its turn, actually.

I think I might check (FE)'s base stats to see if Bulbapedia is right and whether they are different in Crystal.

So, it looks like TheZZAZZGlitch has managed to run his own code within Gold version?

Yeah, I just noticed he made a TAS. Werster's real time run is faster and beats Red as well as Lance (unlike this run), but it's still a good video. It can definitely be improved though. Sadly it probably won't get accepted for these aforementioned reasons, due to TASVideos tending to focus on optimization instead of creativity...

The arbitrary code execution discovery is actually a few months old. Last July, Sanqui found out that arbitrary code execution is possible in Gold via the Coin Case. TheZZAZZGlitch later made a simple 'hello world' program that displays the first Pokémon's nickname instead of the amount of coins but afterwards he made a new Celebi glitch.

[Xelrog T. Apocalypse]

Even if we could, it would be kind of pointless to battle, as all you have to do to beat FE is use a special attack. It's meant for use against blind opponents and AI.

Also, I'm playing cartridges, not ROMs.

[blahpy]

The arbitrary code execution discovery is actually a few months old. Last July, Sanqui found out that arbitrary code execution is possible in Gold via the Coin Case.

I can't believe I had missed this thread!

If I wanted to learn about how assembly works, can anyone advise me a way to go about that?  Is it something I can teach self, or would it be necessary to do a course at university?

[Evie the Mother Hen ☽ ❤]

The arbitrary code execution discovery is actually a few months old. Last July, Sanqui found out that arbitrary code execution is possible in Gold via the Coin Case.

I can't believe I had missed this thread!

If I wanted to learn about how assembly works, can anyone advise me a way to go about that?  Is it something I can teach self, or would it be necessary to do a course at university?

I'm not experienced with assembly myself, though these links have been particularly useful for me:

List of opcodes
Details about GameBoy CPU Instructions

I imagine a course would probably be best, but you might be able to find tutorials online. Skeetendo might be of help, too.

[Xelrog T. Apocalypse]

Another fun thing you might be able to do is get a PkMnaPkMnゥ ♂ fPkMnk, raise it to level 90 to make it learn TM53 (FD), make it the third move. Do the Pokémon merge glitch ("Q glitch") to make the donor a stable Pokémon that can evolve by level up or stone (it'll say 'not able' on using the relevant stone even though it is and pressing it will work), evolve it and then trade it over to Generation II and do the Celebi egg glitch to get an egg within an egg (lol). I don't know if this would work though, and it would be harder than the 8F / w sm method.

A question... glitch pokemon can't be traded between Gen 2 games, can they? And eggs can't be traded, either? So if I were to obtain an FE using this method, it would be quarantined to the game in which I hatched the egg, and I couldn't trade it to another Gen 2 game thereafter?

[Evie the Mother Hen ☽ ❤]

Another fun thing you might be able to do is get a PkMnaPkMnゥ ♂ fPkMnk, raise it to level 90 to make it learn TM53 (FD), make it the third move. Do the Pokémon merge glitch ("Q glitch") to make the donor a stable Pokémon that can evolve by level up or stone (it'll say 'not able' on using the relevant stone even though it is and pressing it will work), evolve it and then trade it over to Generation II and do the Celebi egg glitch to get an egg within an egg (lol). I don't know if this would work though, and it would be harder than the 8F / w sm method.

A question... glitch pokemon can't be traded between Gen 2 games, can they? And eggs can't be traded, either? So if I were to obtain an FE using this method, it would be quarantined to the game in which I hatched the egg, and I couldn't trade it to another Gen 2 game thereafter?

You can trade all ????? except FE, due to the stats glitch. You can trade Eggs actually (as long as you aren't left with no usable Pokémon) as well as glitch Eggs, so that might be a way of trading FE if you have it in an Egg, though I'm not totally sure.