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Author Topic: Pokémon Sword and Shield Discussion  (Read 2882 times)

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Sherkel

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Re: Pokémon Sword and Shield Discussion
« Reply #75 on: June 30, 2019, 02:07:23 pm »
The Dexit debate:

« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 02:08:36 pm by Sherkel »

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Re: Pokémon Sword and Shield Discussion
« Reply #76 on: June 30, 2019, 02:16:54 pm »

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Re: Pokémon Sword and Shield Discussion
« Reply #77 on: June 30, 2019, 10:24:31 pm »
The Dexit debate:



Is there really a debate for the other side, though? I know some people have been arguing that we should appreciate what Game Freak is putting out because they're trying their best, but the overwhelming majority of people I've seen have been fighting vehemently for Game Freak to bring back the National Dex. I haven't really heard any convincing arguments otherwise.
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RETIRE

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Re: Pokémon Sword and Shield Discussion
« Reply #78 on: July 02, 2019, 10:12:18 am »
 I am against national dex coming back, for several reasons.

1) backwards compatability makes older saves less nostalgic and makes the journey in the new game less enjoyable

First of all, the enjoyment of the game should be focused on the journey and the gameplay elements. They want to show pokémon that support the theme and flow of the game, which can only be a huge improvement. Why has pokémon become this seperate genre of gaming where its important to keep backwards compatability and keep on sending through old pokémon? It's only going to become increasingly LESS fun to fill a large dex, meanwhile ripping the original games the pokémon came from, from their precious pokémon. It's way more compelling to me to keep a mythical in a game I got it from, as that can be seen as REAL nostalgic feelings when going back to the old game. Now all you get is this fake nostalgic feeling when sending over a pokémon, for like 5 minutes. And then you either glance at them every now and then and lose the achievement aspect, or you just wait to send them over whenever a new game is out.

2) allowing gamefreak to put more effort into the NEW pokémon and new mechanics, rather than wasting thousands of hours on old ones.

Yes, you could say making a model and upscaling it doesnt take long once you have a library. But as they seem to be changing mechanics, they need to add a ton of new animations, reconsider moves and make it so encountertables aren't overloaded with a ton of superlow % encounters, add stupid minigame-like mechanics like swarms or other time-wasters to make a portion of the old pokémon fit in the game.

3) balancing becomes increasingly difficult

Have you ever played league of legends? Its a game with 150 characters with unique movesets and 4 abilities. The creators, Riot Games, need to push out weekly patches to fix the meta, fix balancing issues and its a never ending cycle. So. Imagine having to do that for a game with over a 1000 characters with multiple thousands of moveset combinations. But wait, there's more! Riot games has a single game they have to adapt the meta to. Gamefreak will probably have 2-3 games with online play at the same time, all with different meta's and different balancing issues they have to fix periodically. This becomes unmaintainable while also working on newer games at the same time. One game could have a completely broken strategy using substitute while in another game substitute has just become a gimic because some new moves and pokémon can counter it completely. Having less pokémon allows for clearer balancing issues and less time to be spent fixing a mechanic.

4) The reason for outrage

Whilst there is definitely a big portion who wants national dex back, they all read or listen to people who know jack s**t about the matter. So many youtubers push their own agenda bcs they want attention by causing this drama or misinterpreting things gamefreak has said just to rally up people. People who want progression and better games and think critically is what we need. I dont say wanting nat dex back is a bad thing, is that they go about it the wrong way.

Thnx for reading :)
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 10:17:36 am by RETIRE »
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Re: Pokémon Sword and Shield Discussion
« Reply #79 on: July 02, 2019, 01:46:23 pm »
Bingo. This is why I'd want a medium amount of good pizza here too.

1) backwards compatability makes older saves less nostalgic and makes the journey in the new game less enjoyable

Exactly. If I wanted to look at a Ho-Oh I caught in 3rd Gen, I wouldn't want to see some big 3D model on a fancy background with a high-res interface. I'd want to boot up Ruby, mash A through the Ruby intro, load up the PC and look at the summary screen that was limited by the hardware at the time, with the 3rd Gen music and sound effects playing all the while with the "GBA hiss" on top.

2) allowing gamefreak to put more effort into the NEW pokémon and new mechanics, rather than wasting thousands of hours on old ones.

What I was saying earlier. Unlikely that they will, but this makes it possible.

3) balancing becomes increasingly difficult

Even Wiktionary agrees. Also look at Touhou Ningyougeki 1.8 for a great example of the opposite.

4) The reason for outrage

Luckily I don't pay attention to them, so I can't expand on that. :P I love sensationalism, but it has to actually be entertaining.

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Re: Pokémon Sword and Shield Discussion
« Reply #80 on: July 07, 2019, 07:14:28 pm »
I am against national dex coming back, for several reasons.

1) backwards compatability makes older saves less nostalgic and makes the journey in the new game less enjoyable

First of all, the enjoyment of the game should be focused on the journey and the gameplay elements. They want to show pokémon that support the theme and flow of the game, which can only be a huge improvement. Why has pokémon become this seperate genre of gaming where its important to keep backwards compatability and keep on sending through old pokémon? It's only going to become increasingly LESS fun to fill a large dex, meanwhile ripping the original games the pokémon came from, from their precious pokémon. It's way more compelling to me to keep a mythical in a game I got it from, as that can be seen as REAL nostalgic feelings when going back to the old game. Now all you get is this fake nostalgic feeling when sending over a pokémon, for like 5 minutes. And then you either glance at them every now and then and lose the achievement aspect, or you just wait to send them over whenever a new game is out.

2) allowing gamefreak to put more effort into the NEW pokémon and new mechanics, rather than wasting thousands of hours on old ones.

Yes, you could say making a model and upscaling it doesnt take long once you have a library. But as they seem to be changing mechanics, they need to add a ton of new animations, reconsider moves and make it so encountertables aren't overloaded with a ton of superlow % encounters, add stupid minigame-like mechanics like swarms or other time-wasters to make a portion of the old pokémon fit in the game.

3) balancing becomes increasingly difficult

Have you ever played league of legends? Its a game with 150 characters with unique movesets and 4 abilities. The creators, Riot Games, need to push out weekly patches to fix the meta, fix balancing issues and its a never ending cycle. So. Imagine having to do that for a game with over a 1000 characters with multiple thousands of moveset combinations. But wait, there's more! Riot games has a single game they have to adapt the meta to. Gamefreak will probably have 2-3 games with online play at the same time, all with different meta's and different balancing issues they have to fix periodically. This becomes unmaintainable while also working on newer games at the same time. One game could have a completely broken strategy using substitute while in another game substitute has just become a gimic because some new moves and pokémon can counter it completely. Having less pokémon allows for clearer balancing issues and less time to be spent fixing a mechanic.

4) The reason for outrage

Whilst there is definitely a big portion who wants national dex back, they all read or listen to people who know jack s**t about the matter. So many youtubers push their own agenda bcs they want attention by causing this drama or misinterpreting things gamefreak has said just to rally up people. People who want progression and better games and think critically is what we need. I dont say wanting nat dex back is a bad thing, is that they go about it the wrong way.

Thnx for reading :)

Just gonna give my opinion.

1. You and I might like holding on to your older games and admiring your Pokemon from the games they came from, but not everybody likes to keep them. Some people like to be able to keep Pokemon they put a lot of blood, sweat and tears into without having to keep all of their old cartridges lying around. Beyond that, this has been an ongoing feature for several years, and just cutting it off with no warning was uncalled for.

2. That would be a fair point if they were but... they aren't really changing much. In fact, they're removing mechanics while reusing old animations and models. Dynamax is cool but it's not gonna be a significant game changer, and I'm fairly certain it's gonna be cut from Gen 9 or 10 just like every other flavor of the day gimmick from the last three generations.

3. Balance has been an issue since Gen 1, and arguably the problem has gotten worse over the years, but removing Pokemon is not a good long term solution. Removing some Pokemon will not automatically make others better. With over 800 creatures in existence, some are bound to be better than others, it's just a fact.

4. Yes, some people have been acting like babies, especially on Twitter. And some YouTubers are just jumping on the bandwagon and spreading misinformation and toxic ideals. Apart from that, though, it's not the fact that Pokemon are being cut, that's a bummer but I could make peace with that. It's more about why they said they were doing it. As we can plainly see, there's almost no extra care going into the animations, the graphics, the gameplay, or anything to set this game apart outside of the region, which is unremarkable at best. I can safely say that I've seen GameCube games that look light years better (see Metroid Prime, Super Mario Sunshine, Resident Evil remake, Pikmin 2, F-Zero GX, even Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness had better battle animations at the very least). I don't want these games to blow me away like Zelda, I just want something aesthetically pleasing, and these games can't even be called unremarkable in terms of visual appeal, they're straight up bad and dated.

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Re: Pokémon Sword and Shield Discussion
« Reply #81 on: July 09, 2019, 05:18:16 pm »
Well, I'm kind of a fan of the new Pokemon at least. I'm still peeved about the missing National Dex, but I don't think that has to mean the game will be unplayable or bad because of it. Rolycoly looks cool, and I like Duraludon too, even if it means that Dialga isn't the only Steel/Dragon type Pokemon anymore.

Also looks like they confirmed a "Gigantamaxing" mechanic, which essentially looks like mega-evolution, only... not? Pokemon still get obscenely large like with normal Dynamaxing, but Gigantamaxing gives Pokemon a new form, too. Would have liked them to stick with Mega-Evolution, if possible, but I like new forms and will take them in any way I can get.

Other interesting quirk: apparently some gym leaders and gym types will be version exclusive? Reminds me of when they had some version-exclusive gym leaders in the Gen 5 games, but, in those games, even though the leaders were different, the teams were still the same. Here it looks like the gyms themselves are completely version-exclusive, including the gym's type, puzzle, leader, and leader's team. Pretty neat.
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