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Author Topic: Catch them all in Pokemon Crystal - Virtual Console  (Read 870 times)

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RashFaustinho

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Catch them all in Pokemon Crystal - Virtual Console
« on: March 01, 2019, 08:32:56 am »
Hi there!
I'm currently doing a run on Pokemon Crystal, Virtual Console version, but I'm starting to fear that I'll be completly unable from completing the pokedex.

When I first started the game, I thought I would've rely on glitches in order to catch all unobtainable pokemons... But it's starting to look like this will not be the case.

These are all the issues I'm facing:

- The most problematic of all: Cloning doesn't work. I can do it fine in BGB, but on 3DS there is literally no way to clone Pokemons, probably due to how Virtual Console emulator works, and by extension it is impossible to get a bad clone.
It doesn't matter the timing you perform this, the animals just won't duplicate.

- Due to being Pokemon Crystal, I have no access to Coin Case glitches

- All ACEs strats regarding Crystal all require a Bad Clone, which I cannot obtain.

- Even if I won't rely on ACEs but on more generic tricks, such as the Celebi Egg Glitch... It STILL requires that ???? clone

Long story short, it seems like the lack of ????? is going to prevent me from finishing the pokedex, and thus the game.

Isn't there ANY way to get around this?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 08:33:53 am by RashFaustinho »

RashFaustinho

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Re: Catch them all in Pokemon Crystal - Virtual Console
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2019, 05:33:59 am »
Lolwut? Cloning on VC Crystal works fine. The timing's just a little trickier. You have to restart the game after the last period in the "SAVING... DON'T TURN OFF THE POWER." message appears. Tap the touch screen and press RESET on the VC menu.

After reading this, I tried other times. After like 1 hour of attempts, I managed to get it.

I swear, I was starting to think that cloning was impossible on Gen 2 VC. Because whenever I try doing this in a BGB emulator, it works almost immediately, I even got 2 in a row, but here, I don't know why, it was a PAIN.
I managed to make it work by depositing a Pkmn with a held item in an almost-filled box.


So...

Now I have an unstable Poliwhirl-Bad Clone Hybrid. I moved it to an empty box because of the glitchy name.

I was trying to get the Wrong Pocket ACE, but when I got the end it was written that you need another ACE to setup this other ACE in the first place. Ugh.

Now I have a Quagsire with Return as its first move, a fourth move with less than 10 letters (snore) and a Spearow holding TM50.

I'm theoretically ready to setup the ACE for creating the TM15 ACE setup, buuut....
The required item setup is this:
PP Up x252
TM42 x18
TM27 x3
TM10 x(any quantity)

How am I supposed to exceed the 99 items quantity limit? There is no Missingno in Crystal.

don't use VC. VC is inaccurate as hell.

I don't actually have a choice. That's the version I'm playing.
Once I completed the Pokedex, I'm good, I don't have to do particularly weird stuff with ACE
« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 05:41:37 am by RashFaustinho »

RashFaustinho

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Re: Catch them all in Pokemon Crystal - Virtual Console
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2019, 06:19:52 am »
No, I do have an hacked 3DS but I'm playing on a legitimate version of Crystal though.
I'd prefer to complete the game there if possible.

The version i'm using is the English one.

The "strat" i'm planning on using is this:

1 ) Catch a Seel.

2 ) Make it learn Safe guard (ugh, grind up to level 48 without evolving, this will be tedious)

3 ) Breed with a Quagsire so that I obtain a Wooper with Safeguard as first move

4 ) Evolve Wooper to Quagsire (futher grinding)

5 ) Catch a Spearow and make it hold TM50 which luckly I stil didn't use.

6 ) Obtaining a Bad Clone (Already done)

7 ) BAD CLONE ACE, from BOX names, to make the VI.2: GET ANY TM/HM x255 CODE (Box, G/S) code... HOPEFULLY this works on Crystal as well because otherwise I don't know how I should pass the 99 items limit cap

8 ) Cloning 5 Bellsprouts so I have 6 (Already done)

9 ) Obtain at least a Bellsprout with Mystery Egg to clone (Already done)

10 ) Key Items overflow via Mystery Eggs

11 ) Catch another Quagsire and make it learn Return

12 ) Bad Clone Ace setup again, this time from Items, to obtain the wrong pocket TM ACE

13 ) From there, using Gameshark codes, obtain all Pokemon, complete the Pokedex.


Am I Right or am I missing a step / is there a faster strat?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 06:45:38 am by RashFaustinho »

RashFaustinho

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Re: Catch them all in Pokemon Crystal - Virtual Console
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2019, 02:05:35 am »
Why has this become an emulation accuracy discussion?
I was just trying to fill up my Pokedex.

No, I'm not trying to transfer Pokemons via Pokemon Bank. Maybe I can need that in future, but not now.

Yeah, I do know already about VC emulation inaccuracies. I follow ZZAZZ glitch on Youtube so I already know that.

No, I don't mind because VC Crystal even with its problems is STILL an official release.
A Retroarch emulated Crystal may be more faithful to the original Crystal from 20 years ago, but it doesn't really matter. VC is an official release, that's how you are supposed to play the game today on a 3DS.

Also, ALL I have to do with ACE... Is just catching Pokemon. That's IT.
Does such a simple task require emulation accuracy?

RashFaustinho

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Re: Catch them all in Pokemon Crystal - Virtual Console
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2019, 04:22:17 am »
You do know that VC for GB/GBC isn't accurate worth a s**t, right? That VC is a dodgy emulator?

My wording was off. By dodgy I meant illegal. Regardless people should respect what version people play their games on.  Even with VC's issues I respect someone more for playing that version because at least it's legitimate and they payed for the game. 

No, I don't mind because VC Crystal even with its problems is STILL an official release.
A Retroarch emulated Crystal may be more faithful to the original Crystal from 20 years ago, but it doesn't really matter. VC is an official release, that's how you are supposed to play the game today on a 3DS.

This.

So how is the run going now? Reading the steps you wrote earlier it seems a bit tedious and not as fun imo. I enjoy the aspect of trying to catch all the Pokemon I can available in the game, and for the ones I can't get use glitches. Using one code to get them all after a long setup seems a bit dull but I guess it's faster..

I have a Seel, it will take some time. I just hope it will work because otherwise this grind will be for nothing.

I am forced to use ACE because of event-exclusive Pokemons, version-exclusive Pokemons and and trade-evolution Pokemons. . I don't have another 3DS and I don't even think that two 3DS can actually connect and trade like in the old GB days, but I may be wrong.

What I HAVE to obtain this way, because I can't do that otherwise, is:
- Celebi, he's a Mythical so its' pretty obvious
- Mew, Mythical from Gen 1
- The other two starters from Johto
- All starters from Kanto are unobtainable without trading
- All Legendaries from Gen 1 (Mewtwo, Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres) are unobtainable.
- Omanyte and Kabuto are Gen 1 only
- Version Exclusives: Vulpix, Mankey, Girafarig, Mareep, Remoraid and their evolutions are unobtainable
- Pokemons that needs trading in order to be obtained: Gengar, Machamp, Alakazam, Golem, Politoed, Slowking, Steelix, Kingdra, Scizor, Porygon2



These games were designed to be played in multiple versions, with your friend, so that you could trade Pokemons that were, otherwise, unobtainable.
The only way to accomplish a Full-Pokedex in a solo run is using tricks and exploit.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 04:22:38 am by RashFaustinho »

Nostalgia

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Re: Catch them all in Pokemon Crystal - Virtual Console
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2019, 04:55:54 am »
What I HAVE to obtain this way, because I can't do that otherwise, is:
- Celebi, he's a Mythical so its' pretty obvious

The Celebi event was added to VC Crystal. That was one of the main selling points of getting VC Crystal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pye8e4bYgug

The rest I understand. I enjoy trying to complete as much of the Pokedex as much as I can. I find it fun hunting the 5% and 1% encounter rate Pokemon. In the past just through a combination of training and random encounters trying to complete the Pokedex I end up running into a shiny eventually. Especially on Crystal, I don't know what it is but Crystal was my lucky game for shinies. Had quite a few over the years but it is the Pokemon game I've put the most time into. I'm currently in the process of playing through Emerald again and trying to get all the Pokemon I can without trades/glitches and according to a post I read that total is 213.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 04:59:32 am by Nostalgia »

Epsilon

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Re: Catch them all in Pokemon Crystal - Virtual Console
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2019, 08:43:16 am »
Parzi, it's worth noting that OP is stuck between a rock and a hard place here. If OP lacks access to a French Crystal ROM for whatever reason, it means that BGB is not an option for them. Building pokecrystal wouldn't be an option either as a French complete Pokecrystal does not exist (to my knowledge)

That leaves them with the tragic flaw of being stuck with *shudders* VC

No, I don't mind because VC Crystal even with its problems is STILL an official release.

VC being an official release only means that Nintendo was responsible for it. BGB, being an unofficial emulator, is far more accurate to the gameboy's actual hardware and functioning. I'm beating a dead horse, I realize, so i'll just leave it at that.


In truth, no such "catch 'em all" ACE code exists for even an English Crystal, let alone a French version. I had only made a catch 'em all box name script for English G/S. It was discussed on the Discord a few prior times, and I had mentioned I would be responsible for such a code - 2 months later I made the claim again, and in typical Epsi-fashion it never came into existence.

If I can bother to make such a code for English Crystal, I probably will not for the French version as I do not own a French copy. Krys3000 would be much more apt for that. I wont begin to make any claims on how the accuracy of VC would impact the DMA-Hijacking that would likely be required for it.

OP, is your goal to complete the pokedex, or to obtain every Pokemon? If it's the former, surely a code can be made to set Pokedex flags.
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ympyrätesti

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Re: Catch them all in Pokemon Crystal - Virtual Console
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2019, 04:07:43 pm »
Thanks for letting me know. Glad I brought that up out of nowhere. Now I can indefinitely put it off. :P

As for differences between box names, doesn't this mean any that work in English would work in other languages too? https://pastebin.com/dW4dPyGp

To bring this back on topic (if possible...oof), was the bad clone the only obstacle you were facing, RashFaustinho, or did you have any other questions?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 04:34:30 pm by Sherkel »
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Epsilon

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Re: Catch them all in Pokemon Crystal - Virtual Console
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2019, 04:35:48 pm »
Thanks for letting me know. Glad I brought that up out of nowhere. Now I can indefinitely put it off. :P

As for differences between box names, doesn't this mean any that work in English would work in other languages too? https://pastebin.com/dW4dPyGp

If we were to assume that WRAM is not shifted in anyway, then a conversion between English and French should be possible for most codes.

As to whether or not WRAM is shifted, Krys3000 is a better resource for that than I. I recall hearing him make the claim that WRAM is not shifted between the English and French versions, but I cannot cite any source for that and I do not have the French ROM for confirmation.

Maybe I'll break out Google Translate and see if any claims about it are made on PRAMA.
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RashFaustinho

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Re: Catch them all in Pokemon Crystal - Virtual Console
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2019, 03:17:35 am »
As for the debate on that VC thing:
I know that the game is the same, and I know that there are differences regarding emulation inaccuracies, but I have a "speerunner"'s vision about it.
Did they release the game in a store? Does it work differently for whatever reason, may it be changes in the ROM, emulator or what else?
The answer to both is yes.
Then by all means, FOR ME, it's a different release, or a new release, call it however you want.
What matters it's his legitimacy. If Nintendo released that way, may it be willingly or unwillingly, it doesn't really matter... What matters is that's you are intended to play the game on a 3DS in that state, not in a more accurated emulated version.

It's like when speerunners use japanese versions of the games because of unglitched exploits that do not exist in the international versions, like Super Mario 64's positioning glitches.
Clearly that's something programmers weren't intended to put in their game, but the title was released in that state and sold in Japanese stores in that condition, so by all means it's a legitimate way to play the game, and speerunners can abuse it.

The VC Crystal version is more or less in the same position. Glitches have different effects because of unintentend emulation inaccuracies, but stil, if you go to the eshop and buy a Pokemon Crystal, that's exactly how the game is emulated.
So, FOR ME, if you're playing in a 3DS, the VC version is the most legitimate (not accurate) way to play the game.

It would be a different story if my aim was to play the most faithful possible emulation of GBC Pokemon Crystal, than in that case I would use an emulator, or play it in a different platform.
But I don't care for faithfulness, I care for legitimacy, and by all means, GBC Crystal and VC Crystal are both legitimate ways to play the game. Third-Party emulators are just a way to... EMULATE that legitimate version of the game in the most accurate way possible.


-----------------------

Back in topic!

I decided to test the whole thing on a BGB emulator before doing in the VC release.
The grind is more than expected so now I will try to test the thing in BGB first to see if I can set up that wrong pocket ACE in Crystal.



Parzi, it's worth noting that OP is stuck between a rock and a hard place here. If OP lacks access to a French Crystal ROM for whatever reason, it means that BGB is not an option for them. Building pokecrystal wouldn't be an option either as a French complete Pokecrystal does not exist (to my knowledge)

That leaves them with the tragic flaw of being stuck with *shudders* VC

No, I don't mind because VC Crystal even with its problems is STILL an official release.

VC being an official release only means that Nintendo was responsible for it. BGB, being an unofficial emulator, is far more accurate to the gameboy's actual hardware and functioning. I'm beating a dead horse, I realize, so i'll just leave it at that.


In truth, no such "catch 'em all" ACE code exists for even an English Crystal, let alone a French version. I had only made a catch 'em all box name script for English G/S. It was discussed on the Discord a few prior times, and I had mentioned I would be responsible for such a code - 2 months later I made the claim again, and in typical Epsi-fashion it never came into existence.

If I can bother to make such a code for English Crystal, I probably will not for the French version as I do not own a French copy. Krys3000 would be much more apt for that. I wont begin to make any claims on how the accuracy of VC would impact the DMA-Hijacking that would likely be required for it.

OP, is your goal to complete the pokedex, or to obtain every Pokemon? If it's the former, surely a code can be made to set Pokedex flags.

Why French?
I'm playing the English version.

Anyway, If I could actually catch the Pokemons, it would be better. I know I'm already technically cheating by catching the mons via ACE but I'm doing it because of unobtainable Pokemons in the Crystal Version (I have no other choice).

I wasn't planning on cheating the Pokedex Flags, but if there is no other option available, I'll take it.

Quote
To bring this back on topic (if possible...oof), was the bad clone the only obstacle you were facing, RashFaustinho, or did you have any other questions?

My only doubt it's if that TMX255 code that has been posted in the sticky topic in this section does apply to Crystal as well. That's why I'm going to test on BGB first.

Other than that, no, I just have to stand through the tedious grinding.





EDIT: I tried now, but I'm having trouble with the Bad Clone ACE.
For some reason, the bad clone I've obtained doesn't have a glitchy Name. I have to try make another one now.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 05:10:46 am by RashFaustinho »

Epsilon

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Re: Catch them all in Pokemon Crystal - Virtual Console
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2019, 06:48:22 am »
Parzi, it's worth noting that OP is stuck between a rock and a hard place here. If OP lacks access to a French Crystal ROM for whatever reason, it means that BGB is not an option for them. Building pokecrystal wouldn't be an option either as a French complete Pokecrystal does not exist (to my knowledge)

That leaves them with the tragic flaw of being stuck with *shudders* VC

No, I don't mind because VC Crystal even with its problems is STILL an official release.

VC being an official release only means that Nintendo was responsible for it. BGB, being an unofficial emulator, is far more accurate to the gameboy's actual hardware and functioning. I'm beating a dead horse, I realize, so i'll just leave it at that.


In truth, no such "catch 'em all" ACE code exists for even an English Crystal, let alone a French version. I had only made a catch 'em all box name script for English G/S. It was discussed on the Discord a few prior times, and I had mentioned I would be responsible for such a code - 2 months later I made the claim again, and in typical Epsi-fashion it never came into existence.

If I can bother to make such a code for English Crystal, I probably will not for the French version as I do not own a French copy. Krys3000 would be much more apt for that. I wont begin to make any claims on how the accuracy of VC would impact the DMA-Hijacking that would likely be required for it.

OP, is your goal to complete the pokedex, or to obtain every Pokemon? If it's the former, surely a code can be made to set Pokedex flags.

Why French?
I'm playing the English version.

Ah, my mistake! I was mistaking you for another user playing VC French Crystal.

While that does simplify things, do note that no such code exists for any version of Crystal. Such a code would require:

 - Finding a place in the HOME rom bank where i can safely store and load a payload to be repeatedly executed by DMA Hijack

 - Reroute the DMA routine to that payload

In which that payload would be responsible for making the actual writes to the opponent's pokemon data.


While i'm sure that can be done, that is not a short feat. It will probably require multiple codes and patience.

Even given accuracy emulation differences with VC, i'm sure DMA Hijacking is still possible and that such a feat would work, so there's some good news there.

My only doubt it's if that TMX255 code that has been posted in the sticky topic in this section does apply to Crystal as well. That's why I'm going to test on BGB first.

If it was intended for G/s, it will not work on Crystal at all.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 07:00:40 am by Epsilon »
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RashFaustinho

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Re: Catch them all in Pokemon Crystal - Virtual Console
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2019, 09:02:37 am »
Oh, I see. Well, I'll see what I can get out of it. First I want to see if ACE in solo VC is possible, after that maybe I can try translating gameshark codes into ACE. I'll found a way somehow, but first I have to access the ACE in the first place.

Do you have any suggestion on how surpass the 99 items limit cap? That's one of the main issues I'm facing right now, it's preventing me from setting up some codes.
For example, the Wrong Pocket ACE requires me to setup a PP Up x252 ; How am I supposed to get that amount if Crystal has no Missingno trick?
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 09:39:41 am by RashFaustinho »