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Author Topic: Re: Religion  (Read 59 times)

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Evie the Bird Mother 🌸 ☽

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Re: Religion
« on: November 12, 2011, 10:42:40 am »
^Necropost, FFFUUUU-

In all reality, I am an atheist, but as a former Christian, I see a lot of your viewpoints.

And messing with one religion just because they aren't...fond of our ideals?

The U.S. government fails.

I'm agnostic/atheist, but part of me is deist. I don't doubt that a God may exist but I don't want to assume that it would be in the image of mankind, or that it would be the type of God which would interrupt with our everyday lives or punish us for our actions. I also don't want to assume that a God doesn't exist, because in that sense we may be assuming that everything is open to scientific enquiry, like being 'fish studying water' and denying that the universe may have been constructed externally by things which are impossible for us to measure, such as the actions of a creator (kind of like playing The Sims, we would say that they couldn't objectively assume that there is no 'God' but it would be surprising if one of them suddenly said 'Hi God!' and said everything about you. We may assume that it was a game that was capable of e.g. reading your browser history, not knowing it from outside of the computer)

A person who has never experienced hearing may imagine what it may be like to 'hear' in terms of their other senses, or may believe that it makes them a completely different person altogether. The Big Bang theory is an educated assumption, because while it is based on the observation that the universe is expanding, it assumes that when the universe began it was expanding from something minuscule, and the traditional 'age of the universe' tries to make an assumption about the date of its beginning based on the assumption that it has always been expanding.

I don't think there are objective, universal 'evils'. I think that they are just social constructions, because what is 'evil' for one person isn't necessarily for another. There's also the 'lottery of birth' argument, in which if something is beyond your control, e.g. economic background, race, gender, how can you be stigmatised for it, where some religions tend to have classist/racist/sexist traits.

I don't think you can easily disregard creation of the universe, because that may be making dogmatic assumptions about religion, which is essentially like religion itself. I appreciate people like Richard Dawkins for wanting us to not be 'fence-sitters', but I don't think that all religions are as 'dangerous' as he claims, and only those with an extreme fundamentalist basis which can be a problem, though I dislike things like the emphasis on a Christian ethos in schools across Western society, when others like a Buddhist ethos are just as favourable.
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Re: Religion
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2017, 08:10:50 am »
I'm agnostic-theist, so basically I believe in God but feel it's impossible to know whether or not a God exists or the nature of what God is/wants since we're part of reality and can't look at it without escaping it. I still pray though and it seems to help even if what happens is really a self-fulfilling prophecy.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 08:13:45 am by Torchickens »
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Re: Religion
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2017, 01:16:28 pm »
I believe we cant know if we are in a "base reality", in other words, a non simulation world, or if there is a world outside this one. I cant go outside this existence by my own will, therefore it doesnt matter if I believe in it or not as it has no implications.

I agree with this, and I think God (if God exists) will always love us unconditionally.

therefore I believe we are in a base reality, that gods are fake and made-up by mortal minds as it is the simplest explanation to what we see and feel. someone who devotes his life to a religion is just wasting his time... but I dont hate ones who do. unless they make some stupid ass s**t decisions that can affect me and others who arent in that religion in a negative way... in such case I wont shut up. but that's how I react with other groups, not only religious ones

I relate with this too. I find dogma is fine as long as you don't try to force your view on others and remember to treat people with love and respect. I really dislike that and also religious extremism. In my view you risk not living in God at all and also risk falling to narrow-minded thinking or segregating those who don't believe in your views.

I relate to Christianity though in various ways. My favourite parable is that a good shepherd opens the door by the gate, if you go in by the fence you could scare the sheep and doing that in general is disrepectful (the quote goes on to say that those who go in by the fence are by figures of speech a "burglar"). Therefore we treat others with respect, also be humble and also if you ever meet with someone with ideals that you don't believe in, you go in their shoes, acknowledge their ideals and treat them with fairly.

I also relate to Jesus' saying that he is there so "the blind will see" and "those who see will become blind". This could be interpreted to mean that at times we are caught in an issue such as low mood and 'don't see the light', but God/Jesus will make us understand the issue with greater insight and forgive ourselves and/or others.

Those who see will become blind at a first glance sounds bad, but it means that sometimes in life we have received our comfort but will eventually lose it. It is believed this is needed in Christianity because in God's view those who become proud risk developing qualities such as arrogance, selfishness, being judgemental, discriminating or segregative, condescending.
This is also links into a saying that God chose wisdom in the world to fool the wise, like how in science we have many times changed our paradigms to better fit new discoveries. It also humbles the spirit for things to be this way and strengthens our unconditional love.

Though this is not in Christianity, I feel this also similar to the spiritual law of balance and polarity. If you feel an extreme emotion (such as a keen enthusiasm in something or depression) or are even in an extreme situation (like being a slave), you must at some point have experienced the opposite situation (even if you were a slave but became a dictator in another life) to complete our understanding of the experience.

I'm going to be assertive though in saying I disagree however with some parts of the Bible, in particular the views the homosexuality is immoral (the Bible says they will not "inherit the kingdom of God"), as well as (actual quote) "A woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear women's clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this." and this one is obscure but there is also a verse along the lines that women should be submissive as Eve ate the fruit! In my view that is just sexism disguised as an archetype. Sadly I can no longer find the last one.

This is personally why I stopped believing in fundamental Christianity and became agnostic. But I wish people of all religions could transcend to a place in which their ideals are met without hurting other people.

I personally believe the meaning of life is simply to strengthen love through hardship (in fact we could have eternal love but if you had something to compare it with like yin/yang the feeling would become stronger), but I still assert that I know nothing about God.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 01:20:41 pm by Torchickens »
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Re: Religion
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2017, 11:50:52 am »
I see. Yeah, there are different sects/ways to interpret it. :)

I feel we live in a more accepting society nowadays that isn't as strict regarding ways of life. For what it's worth this dilemma is known as apostasy (also in a negative sense referred to as "falling away"), which means some of the Bible's original laws/principles are abandoned.
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Re: Religion
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2017, 06:55:39 am »
I see, that's interesting. I was personally already aware of there being different translations but at the same time I still feel interpretations (in addition to the translations having differences, and feel interpretation plays a big role in translation but not sure to what extent here) may be important, like how not only they could appear in translation but there are also many parables in the Bible and we've got to try and understand the message.

Sorry, I should have clarified 'ways to interpret it' to include the translations.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 07:26:37 am by Torchickens »
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Re: Religion
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2018, 07:41:22 am »
Atheism implies white noise empiricism. Technically, Charles Darwin was correct, but if quantum suicide is true, then evolution happened along a line of NP noise rather than true randomness.

That sounds interesting. What does NP in NP noise stand for?

I think reconsidering things I'm not agnostic-theist. I have gnosis because there are ideas I believe in, like there is a personal God (however I think God is both personal and impersonal, not sure how to express...), but also just personal life strategies, like if you're feeling stressed take it slow. Prayer regarding trouble seems to work for me even if a lot of it is the placebo effect.

Additionally as absurd as it sounds I believe 'synchronicities' can occur when the universe wants to communicate with you. They seemed to happen a lot during my depression (such as I would find just the right people to address my problems or it would be addressed by chance in the media) but at the same time it's very easy for us to develop a cognitive bias that way, and they have since gone. So you have to be very careful not to become too superstitious, and not lose your sense of critical thinking.

I also don't believe in following a religion or new age movement word for word, because personal issues are complex and there can be many ways to find wellness. I used to get healing crystals for example but I don't buy them anymore. Though I like a lot of what the religions or NAMs say about philosophies of life, I just don't take them too seriously anymore because we are born without a guidebook for life, and it's tricky sometimes as our own sense of how to live doesn't always work (for example transition from childhood into adulthood), yet I feel you've got to find something you truly believe based on what you have found rather than accepting everything.

It's interesting how evolution exists. Something less complex like microbes evolve to have 'intelligent design', including things such as a digestive system, reproductive system and so on. On the other hand, other species can manipulate this to get the features they want through selective breeding.

I'm tempted to believe there may be a meaning of life, it could be both to strengthen the spirit and enjoy it, or it could be somebody's experiment, or it could be to create your own meaning. However there may not be a meaning of life after all.

Additionally why do some animals eat other animals and develop sharp teeth? It could be argued as 'survival of the fittest' and as a means of getting more nutrients but it seems cruel. For similar reasons in Christianity it says don't love the world, I take it to mean love should not be a reaction but come from within. Sometimes you can choose to love something, not just feel it. For example in managing pain you can try to withstand it while keeping faith in the greater good.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 07:43:13 am by Princess Torchic ❤ »
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Re: Religion
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2018, 09:21:42 am »
Interesting.

I've heard of Schrödinger's cat, also the double-slit experiment. I remember at school we learned that before observation is made the cat could be argued to be both dead and alive at the same time.

It's fascinating to think the many worlds interpretation of quantum physics could be true. I like the idea of quantum computers as well which can have bits considered both on and off at the same time.
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Re: Religion
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2019, 10:30:54 am »
I'm atheist Buddhist now if that makes sense. Find anarchy to be yourself unless you don't want to. What I mean is sometimes you have to trust your instinct to truly let go, but you need to be rational as well with others. (don't get me wrong I love people, its just a thing with stereotypically women on the autistic spectrum like me, we can wear a mask but only because we try to restrain ourselves to treat people with respect.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 12:07:40 pm by Quirky Flower Chicken ❤✿ »
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Re: Religion
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2019, 11:04:08 am »
I'm atheist Buddhist now if that makes sense. Find anarchy to be yourself unless you don't want to.
Not many people get that Buddhism is mainly a set of ideals, and isn't necessarily a religion in itself. Even atheists can be Buddhist due to that, so that's not weird.

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Re: Religion
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2019, 07:38:26 am »
It kind of feels religion is sometimes explained in terms of necessity and things that necessarily 'are true'; but its like maybe religion and spirituality have more in common than we think even without gods or even dogma as we tend to think of it (set inflexible ideas). Sometimes different belief systems and ideas about existence divide us, but aren't they all equally correct - if they work for you. I guess sometimes we don't love something because we don't understand how it makes someone feel well. At the same time, I believe they shouldn't be forced on someone without their consent, like, sometimes we are born under a religion but don't want to associate with it as we get older; and love should be free - everyone and everything in the world it could be argued through 'web of life' is equally valued in the analogy that it is accepted into the world (regardless of clashing religions); by extension even if the next intelligent being eats humans, they are not 'bad'.

It feels belief systems (extending to cognitive systems, how we process and understand things which inevitably may be impossible to avoid) tend to cause segregation as well extending to everyday society not just about religion and spirituality (the idea that there are 'good' things, 'good' people, 'bad' things, 'bad' people etc. and this manifests through racism, sexism, etc. disdain for specific groups or people (in religious contexts: extremism)) which hurts other people within those groups. At the same time, both left-wing and right-wing approaches are good; but in becoming too much leaning to one perhaps we inevitably regard the other as bad.

Sometimes religions may have conditions; and the approaches can differ - what is required to not be punished, what is required for prosperity.

Sometimes a reason for sin is given, and that things do happen for good reason; and it feels a harsh circle is created; that in believing in the ideas it validates why suffering exists but a religion with dogma may have conditions attached; in essence if they are refused we may become the analogy of 'bad people' (overtly: the idea of evil) or covertly that we 'miss our mark' to happiness; which can have negative psychological effects to our emotional health, mental health or maybe according to labelling theory; we become it - the irony (in the context of the proponents of the religion trying to prevent it) that because the 'sinful way' is invalidated, the people under it continue. Perhaps they develop disdain for those who deemed it sinful. At the same time, counterintuitively, it may be argued no one is 'bad' or 'good' (and these terms depend on belief/cognitive systems only applying to us), they just are.

What is interesting about life, is that our experiences and cognition about it do seem conditional. There is a degree of control, but try as we might we can't live too long without food, water, the necessities of life, and sometimes bad news. This is why suffering is unavoidable then; that we have limited power. However, time on the other hand is an extension to life - it allows joy, happiness, compassion or calmness to reemerge even after suffering - and this may manifest physically as evolution to grow resistant to long-term suffering even through changes to biology. Another analogy is that time seems to go on even if someone is not conscious (or some may argue: "does it?" though that's another story).

I suppose what is hard however, is embracing evil while trying to embrace comfort/happiness at the same time (however when we are emotionally well, we may do, even if we just think "do what feels good, forget about but don't fight too hard the root core of evil, but listen out/fight for your friends when they are sad")

Embracing evil may seem hard because it would feel by definition, they aren't compatible - but it doesn't mean by embracing bad you become a bad person - for instance, in accepting some things are beyond our ability to love it liberates us, and makes concepts like death, pain easier to accept; because you respect they are part of the world you were born in, even if you don't fully integrate with it.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 08:13:02 am by Princess Torchic Owl Lover ☽ ❤ »
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Re: Religion
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2019, 07:37:10 pm »
There are "necessarily true things", though, because otherwise nobody in the world would have spent all this time discussing them, as we're both doing now. The question is whether they're clear, and to me religion and spirituality are there to fill the gap that science and technology continue to leave (and arguably how trustworthy those may be to begin with; you might not get any government funding or publicity for all your hard work if it concludes something certain people don't want to hear...). In that sense religion and spirituality are very much the same, but I consider "religion" to be associating yourself firmly with a specific long-standing tradition and "spirituality" to be coming up with your own. Seeing as your own tradition could already be a long-standing one, though, you can see the vagueness in differentiating the two already.

Quote
Embracing evil may seem hard because it would feel by definition, they aren't compatible - but it doesn't mean by embracing bad you become a bad person - for instance, in accepting some things are beyond our ability to love it liberates us, and makes concepts like death, pain easier to accept; because you respect they are part of the world you were born in, even if you don't fully integrate with it.
I'll accept the existence of a shark, but sure won't choose to get near one or let it bite me. Basically what you said.

Definitively true facts:

Yes. I feel actually the analogy is then a little like programming. If a scientist analysed the world, then the paradigm (classical mechanics, quantum models, string theory, etc.) may be accurate, but not definitively correct. Specifically then, "surfing on the Cinnabar Coast brings up the previous Pokémon" from a strict perspective it's more complex than that (it's the grass encounter buffer sometimes overwritten by old man's demonstration) - and philosophically from a different angle, the characters, water, act of Surfing doesn't exist; they are a series of bits, maybe by extension numbers.

One interpretation of the universe is a hologram model. So nothing physical actually strictly exists; they are just numbers/data. The only reason they seem real is that our senses encode them as touch/sensation-light-sound-etc. Some animals too can perceive colours or have senses we do not have. So that raises an interesting argument about whether what they may perceive, from our perspective, exists (and also in terms of space; the "if a tree falls in a distance that we can't hear does it still make a sound?" argument. Since we don't possess the ability to sense them the only means of believing in them is faith. By extension theory of mind is like this too (we don't know exactly how someone cognitively perceives something or feels about something); as well as this popular thought experiment:

"Mary the color scientist knows all the physical facts about color, including every physical fact about the experience of color in other people, from the behavior a particular color is likely to elicit to the specific sequence of neurological firings that register that a color has been seen. However, she has been confined from birth to a room that is black and white, and is only allowed to observe the outside world through a black and white monitor. When she is allowed to leave the room, it must be admitted that she learns something about the color red the first time she sees it — specifically, she learns what it is like to see that color."

Maybe this as well, "Within the philosophy of color, there is a dispute between color realism, the view that colors are physical properties that objects possess, and color fictionalism, a species of error theory viewing colors according to which there are no such physical properties that objects possess".

Could the material world be a matter of relative permutation. That is, indeed everything is numbers. Either an infinite number of positive numbers/infinite number of negative numbers, or a set number of positive numbers and a set number of negative numbers. Equally they combine to make 0, explaining how 'something arose from nothing'. The idea is that it is still nothing; but because space and time may be different interpretations of the same thing, space-time is oscillating under relativity as well - so because we have our own sense of time, the cosmic expansion of the universe is happening at a specific velocity which can be given a + or - sign depending on our interpretation (maybe it will indeed contract the other way only so that the total velocity is balanced back to 0 (hence fulfilling the permutations of all positive and negative numbers) and there are some scary "the big rip" ideas where the fundamental particles tear apart hence everything larger as well); with the time dynamic moving forward right now for us. Perhaps a curious 'escape of the fate of the universe' matter is through death. Because then the perception of time is reinterpreted? Maybe death is time travel. The idea to objectively know the universe may in fact be vain, because by definition true objectivity may be impossible; as relative points in space (and within our own consciousness) restrict that/all conditions are not in true isolation for scientific method, because the location (and/or reference point i.e. your consciousness) arguably cannot always be the same.

Personal religions/spirituality/rituals:

Mm. I think like in human nature, we are born in confusion but we learn things are good. Hence in a small respect, everything is a spirituality. That for instance right here, Pokémon analysis is good it's our culture. This may also link in with Richard Dawkin's analogy of a meme (I don't like how he is criticised for not believing in religion because we believe what we like). There are some fascinating videos on how natural selection works. Maybe we can even 'science' what is likely to feel spiritual to us, but I feel the complexity of the world may make that difficult. Some ideas are innovate but simple things; from a media perspective, maybe a funny original meme. Also relatability (many like Furret Walk as it is cute).

From a truth seeking perspective, faiths may stick with us if they have a cooperative approach in our best interest - so that the world is not all dark and gloomy. It's unfortunate however this can lead to demonisation of other groups or 'sinful'/'unhelpful' beliefs within that belief system. Buddhism have the the "three poisons" as well, but we can find humour in it - like an extremely greedy person who for some reason despite the Buddha's best efforts decides to stay in Samsara and fill their world with all the karmic particles (matter and blockages). So the Buddha happily because he is modest says "OK".
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 07:53:47 pm by Evie the Bird Mother ☽ ❤ »
(I was former joint head admin but stepped down)
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Here have some free flowers on every post. ^^
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Love, faith, hope are free. If all is lost friends save us.
Thanks fans for lovely Torchic artwork. ♡ First image thanks Nyapon.