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Author Topic: Organization discussion thread (everyone please weigh in)  (Read 5742 times)

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Re: Organization discussion thread (everyone please weigh in)
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2019, 03:37:09 pm »
We got an example very quickly with the Defense Up 1 glitch

Just to clarify, please don't use this name for the wiki page (even a redirection would be unnecessary IMO). I would suggest "0 damage reported as miss (glitch)", with some variations of "doubly resisted move missing glitch" being the redirections. It can also encompass one of the effects of dual-type damage misinformation.

Further on topic, bringing back the "natural glitches" category and displaying it prominently is a good suggestion, though I might want to put more emphasis on what...well, cuts to the core of the game, basically. Not just something that happens to be doable from a new file. "Essential glitches", or something? In my case, if it wasn't for the techniques in 151 and RBA, I might not have ever come back here, for instance.

Well, I am going to disagree a little, because glitches don't "happen" to be doable from a new file. If they are, that's because they are manifestations of true bugs, rather than one broken assumption causing a chain reaction. Regardless, a focus on "essential glitches" is certainly warranted. I would tentatively define them as "the first glitchy step of a fastest way, starting from a reasonable game state, to achieve a sequence break (or some other appropriate goal)", although, seeing that there should not be too many of them, having them decided on a case-by-case basis by the community might be OK too.

A first step might be to put at least one of the Gen I essential glitches (probably either trainer escape or old man glitch) back onto the sidebar. I also think ACE really doesn't belong in the "glitches" section of the sidebar, as it is too wide a category when regarded as a collection of glitches, and it is much better to think of it as a goal.

Another category that might warrant some focus is "glitches that can happen in normal gameplay". Some glitches doesn't need contrived setups, or out-of-the-box thinking: Looking at the price tag of the bike (and exiting the menu using B) is completely normal behavior for a casual player. Gen I misses are just a fact of life. And I believe every kid who played the game on a non-SGB platform had at some point noticed the escape sprite handling glitch and wondered "what the heck is that?!"

About collapsible sections, by the way, I looked at a page here on my phone a couple days ago and instantly realized what you were talking about, so in short I'm on board in theory with using them for longer pages. There is still the question of practicality for those using a bigger screen, as I don't know if enough pages need entire sections hidden to look cleaner.

It might be because those sections don't exist yet! I think many pages might benefit from a more in-depth analysis or some screenshots, but they haven't been added at least partly because they would break the flow of reading.

Incidentally, Legendary Star Blob has text explanations beside the screenshot (example), instead of vertically between them, and I think that might be a better approach for procedures with screenshots. What do you think? Maybe we can add a template for this.

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Re: Organization discussion thread (everyone please weigh in)
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2019, 04:00:09 am »
On "notability categorization", collapsibles, and nagivability, I figure the closest we'll get for now is expanding the "Miscellaneous glitches of Generation N" templates and placing them in all the places they belong. And while not perfect yet, the "Major glitches" template is headed in a much better direction thanks to the table.

Feedback on both, please:
https://glitchcity.info/wiki/Template:Major_glitches
https://glitchcity.info/wiki/User:Sherkel/Template:Major_glitches_2
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 06:19:41 am by Sherkel »
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Re: Organization discussion thread (everyone please weigh in)
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2019, 10:12:05 am »
On "notability categorization", collapsibles, and nagivability, I figure the closest we'll get for now is expanding the "Miscellaneous glitches of Generation N" templates and placing them in all the places they belong. And while not perfect yet, the "Major glitches" template is headed in a much better direction thanks to the table.

Feedback on both, please:
https://glitchcity.info/wiki/Template:Major_glitches
https://glitchcity.info/wiki/User:Sherkel/Template:Major_glitches_2

Will do (if other people don't feel like or are too busy to do/ doing so). When my mum is back I'll ask to return from my laptop break. ^^
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 10:15:04 am by Evie the Mother Hen ☽ ❤ »
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Re: Organization discussion thread (everyone please weigh in)
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2019, 10:13:35 am »
Which one of the "Major glitch" templates do you prefer or think is more functional?
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Re: Organization discussion thread (everyone please weigh in)
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2019, 10:26:46 am »
Which one of the "Major glitch" templates do you prefer or think is more functional?

Hmm. Both are good. Though the Major 2 template feels slightly neater (the smaller text, however horizontal lines I wonder would make it good for separating entry sub divisions). Feel it may need some more formatting to contrast the entries better and if not horizontal lines, such as a box for each sub-division like buffer overflow techniques like in the original major template). Maybe add icons i.e. images that give an jmpression what they're like.

I worry if people may overwise feel overloaded, although it seems hard to organise them. I wonder if different shades of a grey, (or if we decide, pale, or dark but vivid colour that is friendly on the eyes) in the boxes may help with the black font?)
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 10:35:56 am by Evie the Mother Hen ☽ ❤ »
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Re: Organization discussion thread (everyone please weigh in)
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2019, 12:09:19 pm »
Some horizontal lines do help it, thanks! It is true that it still looks overloaded, but every step so far has been better than just the category.

I also merged the Arbitrary code execution template with it and made the headings more pronounced. While keeping this would definitely stray from what was discussed about the definition of "glitch", it seems to be more worth our attention to have collapsible templates that allow users to dive right in. In the case of ACE, it would probably be better to split it off from "major glitches" if each entrypoint counts as one and makes that section more bloated, but I'm not fully sure how yet.

Icons are a very intriguing idea...they might clash somewhat with the pure text format of most of the site, but I'll be giving it some consideration.

Aaaalright, added some images to it! How well do they go with it?
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 01:04:08 pm by Sherkel »
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Re: Organization discussion thread (everyone please weigh in)
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2019, 01:08:14 pm »
That's all right :). That looks great! Thank you Sherkel! ^^
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Re: Organization discussion thread (everyone please weigh in)
« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2019, 01:12:53 pm »
Excuse me, but what is Connection Copier doing in the ACE category?

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Re: Organization discussion thread (everyone please weigh in)
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2019, 01:30:43 pm »
Excuse me, but what is Connection Copier doing in the ACE category?

You're right. Feel free to remove it, sorry. It has traits like ACE (specifically you can write to most RAM with it) but I imagine the copier function is from ROM and it is the registers that copy to the RAM of your choice.
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Re: Organization discussion thread (everyone please weigh in)
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2019, 01:32:40 pm »
Presumably the ability to write bytes at will in a more direct way than usual, but I agree it's a bit of a stretch. Took it off.
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Re: Organization discussion thread (everyone please weigh in)
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2019, 10:43:19 pm »
Another idea: on, for instance, the Dokokashira door glitch page, have a "Select glitches" template, non-collapsible, taken straight from the new "Major glitches" one. Also include the unavoidably big "Major glitches" menu, but have it be collapsible. Same for any applicable page from any other sub-category.

I just did it here as an example:
https://glitchcity.info/wiki/LOL_glitch

A next step would be to remove buffer overflow techniques from the first template to use on pages with the other one already there separately, and the same for Pomeg sub-glitches on pages that applies to and each other category. I'm not doing this until we're sure what we're keeping in the first and how it's ordered, though.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 12:15:48 am by Sherkel »
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Re: Organization discussion thread (everyone please weigh in)
« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2019, 04:28:23 am »
Say, shouldn't those templates go below the page, instead of above? Fixes the problem of, you know, not seeing the actual page at first glance.

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Re: Organization discussion thread (everyone please weigh in)
« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2019, 05:04:21 am »
Say, shouldn't those templates go below the page, instead of above? Fixes the problem of, you know, not seeing the actual page at first glance.

Mm. I agree there personally. I've sometimes seen like a bug on other wikis where at times, the wiki may not collapse the template (perhaps MediaWiki updates can lead to it too as on the Starfy Wiki I'm like a manager of), one of the templates was expanded by default rather than collapsed. It would take lots of edits (unless we use some kind of bot to do it), but is probably best. Otherwise, we see lots of template text on top before the content about that article.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 05:04:59 am by Evie the Mother Hen ☽ ❤ »
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Here have some free flowers on every post. ^^
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Re: Organization discussion thread (everyone please weigh in)
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2019, 06:08:32 am »
Say, shouldn't those templates go below the page, instead of above? Fixes the problem of, you know, not seeing the actual page at first glance.
And the need for the "See also" sections in some cases, apprently!
https://glitchcity.info/w/index.php?title=LOL_glitch&curid=3113&diff=34109&oldid=34106
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« Reply #44 on: November 21, 2019, 03:37:30 am »
Just letting anyone potentially interested know that they can post in this thread without having passed an arbitrary hurdle of how up-to-date they are. This is about what anyone who browses the site sees, the majority not even registered, and not anything more technical than that.

With that out of the way, my current plan next time I come on is to:
  • Make the rest of the "major glitch sub-templates" and a corresponding truncated "major glitch" template for each
  • Move all templates with lists to the bottom of the pages they're on
  • Clean up and populate each "Misc Gen N" template
  • Place the "Misc Gen N" templates everywhere they're needed

In short, they're nicer for navigation than categories. Needless to say, anyone's free to start doing this or help out once it's started, as it's gonna be pretty inane gopher work. Might not take long, though.

What hasn't been fully addressed:
  • What to do about the pages that fall under none of those templates
  • Whether the above plan is a good idea
  • What to have on the sidebar
  • What to have on the front page
  • How to reorder sections on longer pages, possibly using collapsibles

Thanks to everyone who's replied so far. :)
Held aloft, as if by hands, their thoughts remain adrift
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